Bueno, te cuento lo del Guinea Pig, que dicen los anglosajones.
Estuve de conejito de indias en un hospital de Londres donde me
habian diagnosticado ME-CFS en los 90.
Vivia alli, no me desplace por ninguna razon medica. Simplemente
pasaba por alli.
Bueno, pues eso es todo.
Esta todo publicado, unas seis o siete cosas en los 90, bajo del
nombre de LV Scott y Ted Dinan.
LV era Lucinda V. Scott.
Si los buscas te aparecen hasta en Medline, andan por la red.
Hablan todo el rato del eje hipofisis-pituitaria-adrenal o como sea,
yo casi no me entero de nada de lo que dicen.
Luego llego el año 99, se acabo el presupuesto y volvieron a Irlanda
donde publicaron el ultimo estudio, el de los scanner de las
glandulas suprerenales.
Quedo todo en el aire y no se concreto en nada practico.
Y ese creo que fue el ultimo y que yo sepa dejaron el ME-CFS.
Javier
--- En
lyme_y_otras_zoonosis_cronicas_espanol@yahoogroups.com, "sanarme2000"
<kryda@e...> escribió:
>
> HOLA JAVIER:
>
> ME ALEGRO QUE TE GUSTE LAS HIERBAS QUE HE SELECCIONADO PARA ESTA
> COLECCION DE PRIMAVERA-VERANO Y MUCHO MAS ME ALEGRARE SI, TE
SIENTAN
> TAN BIEN COMO A MI.
>
> ESTARIA GENIAL QUE CONTARAS CON MAS DETALLE LO DE LAS
SUPRARRENALES
> Y EL CONEJITO........DE INDIAS, CLARAO,JA,JA,JA..............
>
> UN ABRAZO
> KRYDA
>
> --- En
> lyme_y_otras_zoonosis_cronicas_espanol@yahoogroups.com, "jjurra"
> <jjurra@y...> escribió:
> >
> > Hola Krida
> >
> > Pues no te creas que no has tenido una buena idea.
> >
> > Tradicionalmente a esas hierbas se les atribuyen las propiedades
> que
> > comentas.
> >
> > Son ademas asequibles y no tienes que recurrir a potinges caros,
> > dificiles de encontrar y "exclusivos" (lease modernos chamanes y
> > hechiceros e internet).
> >
> > Me ha venido a la cabeza que hay un tal Baschetti en Italia que
> > comercializa un engrudo a base de regaliz que dice que para el
sfc
> y
> > tal y tal.
> >
> > El tio era un medico italiano convencido de que sfc y adison son
> > parientes cercanas.
> >
> > Seria segun el un tema de suprarenales y de ahi viene lo del
> regaliz.
> >
> > El tio metia su hociquillo en publicaciones medicas en los 90
con
> el
> > tema de las suprerenales y todo el rollo de los corticoides, que
> > parece que no han sido una buena idea para nadie a largo plazo.
> >
> > Luego surgio lo de Baschetti Liquorice Extract que es algo entre
> > arcilla, manteca de cacahuete y explosivo plastico color marron
> > (hasta fotos hay del bote con el engrudo)
> >
> > Regaliz en todo caso.
> >
> > No promete cura, en eso es honrado, tan solo alivio sintomatico
> > mientras se consume.
> >
> > Algun dia os contare el tema completo de las suprerenales.
> >
> > Fui conejillo de indias de un hospital en el que el resultado
> > publicado fue lo del eje hipofisis-adrenal-pituitaria o algo asi.
> >
> > Llegaron al punto de escanearnos las glandulas suprarenales (que
> yo
> > no sabia que existian) y la conclusion esta publicada:
> >
> >
> >
> > Small adrenal glands in chronic fatigue syndrome: a preliminary
> > computer tomography study.
> >
> > Scott LV, Teh J, Reznek R, Martin A, Sohaib A, Dinan TG.
> >
> > Department of Psychiatry, Trinity College Dublin Medical School,
> St.
> > James's, Hospital, Ireland.
> >
> > No inclusive or satisfactory biomedical explanation for chronic
> > fatigue syndrome (CFS) has as yet been forwarded. Recent
research
> > suggests that a dysregulated hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis
> > (HPA) may be contributory, and in particular that there may be
> > diminished forward drive and adrenal under-stimulation. In this
> > preliminary study we wished to examine a cohort of CFS patients
in
> > whom evidence for such hypofunctioning was found. Our aim was to
> > establish whether these patients had altered adrenal gland size.
> > Patients were recruited from a fatigue clinic. Those who
fulfilled
> > the Centre for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) criteria
> > underwent a 1 microgram adrenocorticotropin (ACTH) stimulation
> test,
> > a test of adrenal gland functioning. Eight subjects (five
females,
> > three males) with a subnormal response to this test underwent a
> > computer tomography (CT) adrenal gland assessment. Measurements
> were
> > compared with those from a group of 55 healthy subjects. The
right
> > and left adrenal gland bodies were reduced by over 50% in the
CFS
> > subjects indicative of significant adrenal atrophy in a group of
> CFS
> > patients with abnormal endocrine parameters. This is the first
> study
> > to use imaging methods to measure adrenal gland size in CFS. It
is
> a
> > limitation of this study that a selected CFS sample was
employed.
> A
> > future larger study would optimally employ an unselected cohort
of
> > CFS patients. This study has implications not only for the
> > elucidation of CFS pathophysiology, but also for possible
> > therapeutic strategies.
> >
> > PMID: 10451910 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- En
> >
>
lyme_y_otras_zoonosis_cronicas_espanol@yahoogroups.com, "sanarme2000"
> > <kryda@e...> escribió:
> > >
> > > MENUDA TONTERIA LA MIA DE NO PONER LAS HIERBAS EN EL PRIMER
> > MENSAJE,
> > > TANTO MISTERIO, A VECES NO SE EN LO QUE PIENSO...., JA,JA,JA.
> > >
> > > AL DIA MINIMO 4 VASOS DE LOS DE AGUA CON INFUSION Y A PARTE
LOS
> > > LIQUIDOS NORMALES QUE SUELO TOMAR.
> > >
> > > TOMILLO-ANTIBIOTICO
> > > ROMERO-ANTINFLAMATORIO
> > > REGALIZ-INMUNOMODULADOR Y ENERGETIZANTE
> > > TE ROJO-DESINTOXICANTE
> > >
> > > POR CADA VASO DE AGUA QUE PONGO EL PUÑADITO QUE PUEDA COGER
CON
> > LOS
> > > DEDOS O UNA CUCHADADA DE CAFE DE CADA HIERBA.
> > >
> > > KRYDA
BUENO CHICOS Y CHICAS:
HOY ME SIGO ENCONTRANDO DE FABULA.
ESTOY TOTALMENTE ALUCINADA MIRAR, COMO ESTABA SIEMPRE TAN HECHA
MISTOS O POLVO, LO QUE MAS OS GUSTE, ESTABA DURMIENDO TODOS LOS DIAS
UNAS 12 HORAS APROXIMADAMENTE Y CLARO ESTA QUE, ME ACOSTABA SOBRE
LAS DOS DE LA MAÑANA PARA PODER INTENTAR HACER ALGO YA QUE, POR LA
NOCHE ESTABA MENOS HECHA POLVO.
PUES AYER ME ACOSTE TAMBIEN A LAS 2 DE LA MADRUGADA Y HOY
SUPERSORPRENDENTEMENTE, JA,JA,JA,....ME HE LEVANTADO A LAS 8,30 DE
LA MAÑANA BASTANTE BIEN Y MUY SORPRENDIDA, ESE DECIR, QUE HE
DORMIDO................6 HORITASSSSSSSSSSSSSSS.
CON ESTO QUIERO DECIROS.................CHAN, CHAN, CHAN!!!!!!QUE
HOY ME SIGO ENCONTRANDO BIEN Y HASTA, INCLUSO, A MEDIO DIA ME HE
TENDIDO UNA MEDIA HORA EN LA CAMA CON ESE CANSANCIO DEL BUENO, BUENO
Y BUENO, DE ESE QUE DA GUSTO Y HACIA MUCHISSSSSSSSIMO TIEMPO QUE NO
SENTIA.
YO SEGUIRE BEBIENDO Y BEBIENDO HASTA EL FIN DE LOS DIAS.PLAS,
PLAS,PLAS.
BESITOS A TODOS Y ESPERO QUE OS SIRVAN IGUAL QUE A MI.
KRYDA
HOLA JAVIER:
ME ALEGRO QUE TE GUSTE LAS HIERBAS QUE HE SELECCIONADO PARA ESTA
COLECCION DE PRIMAVERA-VERANO Y MUCHO MAS ME ALEGRARE SI, TE SIENTAN
TAN BIEN COMO A MI.
ESTARIA GENIAL QUE CONTARAS CON MAS DETALLE LO DE LAS SUPRARRENALES
Y EL CONEJITO........DE INDIAS, CLARAO,JA,JA,JA..............
UN ABRAZO
KRYDA
--- En
lyme_y_otras_zoonosis_cronicas_espanol@yahoogroups.com, "jjurra"
<jjurra@y...> escribió:
>
> Hola Krida
>
> Pues no te creas que no has tenido una buena idea.
>
> Tradicionalmente a esas hierbas se les atribuyen las propiedades
que
> comentas.
>
> Son ademas asequibles y no tienes que recurrir a potinges caros,
> dificiles de encontrar y "exclusivos" (lease modernos chamanes y
> hechiceros e internet).
>
> Me ha venido a la cabeza que hay un tal Baschetti en Italia que
> comercializa un engrudo a base de regaliz que dice que para el sfc
y
> tal y tal.
>
> El tio era un medico italiano convencido de que sfc y adison son
> parientes cercanas.
>
> Seria segun el un tema de suprarenales y de ahi viene lo del
regaliz.
>
> El tio metia su hociquillo en publicaciones medicas en los 90 con
el
> tema de las suprerenales y todo el rollo de los corticoides, que
> parece que no han sido una buena idea para nadie a largo plazo.
>
> Luego surgio lo de Baschetti Liquorice Extract que es algo entre
> arcilla, manteca de cacahuete y explosivo plastico color marron
> (hasta fotos hay del bote con el engrudo)
>
> Regaliz en todo caso.
>
> No promete cura, en eso es honrado, tan solo alivio sintomatico
> mientras se consume.
>
> Algun dia os contare el tema completo de las suprerenales.
>
> Fui conejillo de indias de un hospital en el que el resultado
> publicado fue lo del eje hipofisis-adrenal-pituitaria o algo asi.
>
> Llegaron al punto de escanearnos las glandulas suprarenales (que
yo
> no sabia que existian) y la conclusion esta publicada:
>
>
>
> Small adrenal glands in chronic fatigue syndrome: a preliminary
> computer tomography study.
>
> Scott LV, Teh J, Reznek R, Martin A, Sohaib A, Dinan TG.
>
> Department of Psychiatry, Trinity College Dublin Medical School,
St.
> James's, Hospital, Ireland.
>
> No inclusive or satisfactory biomedical explanation for chronic
> fatigue syndrome (CFS) has as yet been forwarded. Recent research
> suggests that a dysregulated hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis
> (HPA) may be contributory, and in particular that there may be
> diminished forward drive and adrenal under-stimulation. In this
> preliminary study we wished to examine a cohort of CFS patients in
> whom evidence for such hypofunctioning was found. Our aim was to
> establish whether these patients had altered adrenal gland size.
> Patients were recruited from a fatigue clinic. Those who fulfilled
> the Centre for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) criteria
> underwent a 1 microgram adrenocorticotropin (ACTH) stimulation
test,
> a test of adrenal gland functioning. Eight subjects (five females,
> three males) with a subnormal response to this test underwent a
> computer tomography (CT) adrenal gland assessment. Measurements
were
> compared with those from a group of 55 healthy subjects. The right
> and left adrenal gland bodies were reduced by over 50% in the CFS
> subjects indicative of significant adrenal atrophy in a group of
CFS
> patients with abnormal endocrine parameters. This is the first
study
> to use imaging methods to measure adrenal gland size in CFS. It is
a
> limitation of this study that a selected CFS sample was employed.
A
> future larger study would optimally employ an unselected cohort of
> CFS patients. This study has implications not only for the
> elucidation of CFS pathophysiology, but also for possible
> therapeutic strategies.
>
> PMID: 10451910 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- En
>
lyme_y_otras_zoonosis_cronicas_espanol@yahoogroups.com, "sanarme2000"
> <kryda@e...> escribió:
> >
> > MENUDA TONTERIA LA MIA DE NO PONER LAS HIERBAS EN EL PRIMER
> MENSAJE,
> > TANTO MISTERIO, A VECES NO SE EN LO QUE PIENSO...., JA,JA,JA.
> >
> > AL DIA MINIMO 4 VASOS DE LOS DE AGUA CON INFUSION Y A PARTE LOS
> > LIQUIDOS NORMALES QUE SUELO TOMAR.
> >
> > TOMILLO-ANTIBIOTICO
> > ROMERO-ANTINFLAMATORIO
> > REGALIZ-INMUNOMODULADOR Y ENERGETIZANTE
> > TE ROJO-DESINTOXICANTE
> >
> > POR CADA VASO DE AGUA QUE PONGO EL PUÑADITO QUE PUEDA COGER CON
> LOS
> > DEDOS O UNA CUCHADADA DE CAFE DE CADA HIERBA.
> >
> > KRYDA
Pues no te creas que no has tenido una buena idea.
Tradicionalmente a esas hierbas se les atribuyen las propiedades que comentas.
Son ademas asequibles y no tienes que recurrir a potinges caros, dificiles de encontrar y "exclusivos" (lease modernos chamanes y hechiceros e internet).
Me ha venido a la cabeza que hay un tal Baschetti en Italia que comercializa un engrudo a base de regaliz que dice que para el sfc y tal y tal.
El tio era un medico italiano convencido de que sfc y adison son parientes cercanas.
Seria segun el un tema de suprarenales y de ahi viene lo del regaliz.
El tio metia su hociquillo en publicaciones medicas en los 90 con el tema de las suprerenales y todo el rollo de los corticoides, que parece que no han sido una buena idea para nadie a largo plazo.
Luego surgio lo de Baschetti Liquorice Extract que es algo entre arcilla, manteca de cacahuete y explosivo plastico color marron (hasta fotos hay del bote con el engrudo)
Regaliz en todo caso.
No promete cura, en eso es honrado, tan solo alivio sintomatico mientras se consume.
Algun dia os contare el tema completo de las suprerenales.
Fui conejillo de indias de un hospital en el que el resultado publicado fue lo del eje hipofisis-adrenal-pituitaria o algo asi.
Llegaron al punto de escanearnos las glandulas suprarenales (que yo no sabia que existian) y la conclusion esta publicada:
Small adrenal glands in chronic fatigue syndrome: a preliminary computer tomography study.
Scott LV, Teh J, Reznek R, Martin A, Sohaib A, Dinan TG.
Department of Psychiatry, Trinity College Dublin Medical School, St. James's, Hospital, Ireland.
No inclusive or satisfactory biomedical explanation for chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS) has as yet been forwarded. Recent research suggests that a dysregulated hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis (HPA) may be contributory, and in particular that there may be diminished forward drive and adrenal under-stimulation. In this preliminary study we wished to examine a cohort of CFS patients in whom evidence for such hypofunctioning was found. Our aim was to establish whether these patients had altered adrenal gland size. Patients were recruited from a fatigue clinic. Those who fulfilled the Centre for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) criteria underwent a 1 microgram adrenocorticotropin (ACTH) stimulation test, a test of adrenal gland functioning. Eight subjects (five females, three males) with a subnormal response to this test underwent a computer tomography (CT) adrenal gland assessment. Measurements were compared with those from a group of 55 healthy subjects. The right and left adrenal gland bodies were reduced by over 50% in the CFS subjects indicative of significant adrenal atrophy in a group of CFS patients with abnormal endocrine parameters. This is the first study to use imaging methods to measure adrenal gland size in CFS. It is a limitation of this study that a selected CFS sample was employed. A future larger study would optimally employ an unselected cohort of CFS patients. This study has implications not only for the elucidation of CFS pathophysiology, but also for possible therapeutic strategies.
PMID: 10451910 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
--- En lyme_y_otras_zoonosis_cronicas_espanol@yahoogroups.com, "sanarme2000" <kryda@e...> escribió: > > MENUDA TONTERIA LA MIA DE NO PONER LAS HIERBAS EN EL PRIMER MENSAJE, > TANTO MISTERIO, A VECES NO SE EN LO QUE PIENSO...., JA,JA,JA. > > AL DIA MINIMO 4 VASOS DE LOS DE AGUA CON INFUSION Y A PARTE LOS > LIQUIDOS NORMALES QUE SUELO TOMAR. > > TOMILLO-ANTIBIOTICO > ROMERO-ANTINFLAMATORIO > REGALIZ-INMUNOMODULADOR Y ENERGETIZANTE > TE ROJO-DESINTOXICANTE > > POR CADA VASO DE AGUA QUE PONGO EL PUÑADITO QUE PUEDA COGER CON LOS > DEDOS O UNA CUCHADADA DE CAFE DE CADA HIERBA. > > KRYDA
Para cancelar su suscripción a este grupo, envíe un mensaje de correo-e a: lyme_y_otras_zoonosis_cronicas_espanol-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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Según el doctor Peter J. D’Adamo, médico naturópata de reconocido prestigio, el regaliz o palo dulce, es un poderoso elixir para las personas que padecen el síndrome de fatiga crónica.
“El palo dulce es particularmente bueno para el grupo sanguíneo B. Posee propiedades antivirales que reducen su susceptibilidad a las enfermedades autoinmunes. Además, muchas personas del tipo B experimentan una disminución del nivel de azúcar en la sangre después de las comidas (hipoglucemia), y el palo dulce les ayuda a regular esos niveles”
“He comprobado que las personas del tipo O que padecen el sfc reaccionan muy bien a los suplementos de palo dulce y potasio, además de la dieta específica. El palo dulce tiene muchos efectos sobre el organismo, pero en el hígado es donde más se distingue. En los conductos biliares (donde ocurre la desintoxicación) llega a ser más eficiente, brindando una mayor protección contra el daño químico. Esta eliminación preliminar del estrés a nivel hepático parece influir positivamente sobre las glándulas suprarrenales y el azúcar de la sangre, aumentando la energía y desarrollando una sensación de bienestar. (Advertencia: por favor, no utilice el palo dulce sin la supervisión de un médico.)”
Yo lo tomo cuando tengo problemas digestivos, me asienta el estómago y me deja bastante buen cuerpo. Además se me reducen las fasciculaciones.
Ese mezclote hay que probarlo.
Si he entendido bien, ¿haces una sola infusión con las cuatro plantas, con cuatro cucharitas de cada para cuatro vasos?
De: sanarme2000 [mailto:kryda@...] Enviado el: jueves, 31 de marzo de 2005 13:19 Para:lyme_y_otras_zoonosis_cronicas_espanol@yahoogroups.com Asunto: [Lyme-E] MEZCLOTE DE HIERBAS
MENUDA TONTERIA LA MIA DE NO PONER LAS HIERBAS EN EL PRIMER MENSAJE, TANTO MISTERIO, A VECES NO SE EN LO QUE PIENSO...., JA,JA,JA.
AL DIA MINIMO 4 VASOS DE LOS DE AGUA CON INFUSION Y A PARTE LOS LIQUIDOS NORMALES QUE SUELO TOMAR.
TOMILLO-ANTIBIOTICO ROMERO-ANTINFLAMATORIO REGALIZ-INMUNOMODULADOR Y ENERGETIZANTE TE ROJO-DESINTOXICANTE
POR CADA VASO DE AGUA QUE PONGO EL PUÑADITO QUE PUEDA COGER CON LOS DEDOS O UNA CUCHADADA DE CAFE DE CADA HIERBA.
KRYDA
Para cancelar su suscripción a este grupo, envíe un mensaje de correo-e a: lyme_y_otras_zoonosis_cronicas_espanol-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Para cancelar su suscripción a este grupo, envíe un mensaje de correo-e a: lyme_y_otras_zoonosis_cronicas_espanol-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Pues no te creas que no has tenido una buena idea.
Tradicionalmente a esas hierbas se les atribuyen las propiedades que comentas.
Son ademas asequibles y no tienes que recurrir a potinges caros, dificiles de encontrar y "exclusivos" (lease modernos chamanes y hechiceros e internet).
Me ha venido a la cabeza que hay un tal Baschetti en Italia que comercializa un engrudo a base de regaliz que dice que para el sfc y tal y tal.
El tio era un medico italiano convencido de que sfc y adison son parientes cercanas.
Seria segun el un tema de suprarenales y de ahi viene lo del regaliz.
El tio metia su hociquillo en publicaciones medicas en los 90 con el tema de las suprerenales y todo el rollo de los corticoides, que parece que no han sido una buena idea para nadie a largo plazo.
Luego surgio lo de Baschetti Liquorice Extract que es algo entre arcilla, manteca de cacahuete y explosivo plastico color marron (hasta fotos hay del bote con el engrudo)
Regaliz en todo caso.
No promete cura, en eso es honrado, tan solo alivio sintomatico mientras se consume.
Algun dia os contare el tema completo de las suprerenales.
Fui conejillo de indias de un hospital en el que el resultado publicado fue lo del eje hipofisis-adrenal-pituitaria o algo asi.
Llegaron al punto de escanearnos las glandulas suprarenales (que yo no sabia que existian) y la conclusion esta publicada:
Small adrenal glands in chronic fatigue syndrome: a preliminary computer tomography study.
Scott LV, Teh J, Reznek R, Martin A, Sohaib A, Dinan TG.
Department of Psychiatry, Trinity College Dublin Medical School, St. James's, Hospital, Ireland.
No inclusive or satisfactory biomedical explanation for chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS) has as yet been forwarded. Recent research suggests that a dysregulated hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis (HPA) may be contributory, and in particular that there may be diminished forward drive and adrenal under-stimulation. In this preliminary study we wished to examine a cohort of CFS patients in whom evidence for such hypofunctioning was found. Our aim was to establish whether these patients had altered adrenal gland size. Patients were recruited from a fatigue clinic. Those who fulfilled the Centre for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) criteria underwent a 1 microgram adrenocorticotropin (ACTH) stimulation test, a test of adrenal gland functioning. Eight subjects (five females, three males) with a subnormal response to this test underwent a computer tomography (CT) adrenal gland assessment. Measurements were compared with those from a group of 55 healthy subjects. The right and left adrenal gland bodies were reduced by over 50% in the CFS subjects indicative of significant adrenal atrophy in a group of CFS patients with abnormal endocrine parameters. This is the first study to use imaging methods to measure adrenal gland size in CFS. It is a limitation of this study that a selected CFS sample was employed. A future larger study would optimally employ an unselected cohort of CFS patients. This study has implications not only for the elucidation of CFS pathophysiology, but also for possible therapeutic strategies.
PMID: 10451910 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
--- En lyme_y_otras_zoonosis_cronicas_espanol@yahoogroups.com, "sanarme2000" <kryda@e...> escribió: > > MENUDA TONTERIA LA MIA DE NO PONER LAS HIERBAS EN EL PRIMER MENSAJE, > TANTO MISTERIO, A VECES NO SE EN LO QUE PIENSO...., JA,JA,JA. > > AL DIA MINIMO 4 VASOS DE LOS DE AGUA CON INFUSION Y A PARTE LOS > LIQUIDOS NORMALES QUE SUELO TOMAR. > > TOMILLO-ANTIBIOTICO > ROMERO-ANTINFLAMATORIO > REGALIZ-INMUNOMODULADOR Y ENERGETIZANTE > TE ROJO-DESINTOXICANTE > > POR CADA VASO DE AGUA QUE PONGO EL PUÑADITO QUE PUEDA COGER CON LOS > DEDOS O UNA CUCHADADA DE CAFE DE CADA HIERBA. > > KRYDA
Para cancelar su suscripción a este grupo, envíe un mensaje de correo-e a: lyme_y_otras_zoonosis_cronicas_espanol-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Según el doctor Peter J. D’Adamo,
médico naturópata de reconocido prestigio, el regaliz o palo dulce, es un
poderoso elixir para las personas que padecen el síndrome de fatiga crónica.
“El
palo dulce es particularmente bueno para el grupo sanguíneo B. Posee
propiedades antivirales que reducen su susceptibilidad a las enfermedades autoinmunes.
Además, muchas personas del tipo B experimentan una disminución del nivel de azúcar
en la sangre después de las comidas (hipoglucemia), y el palo dulce les ayuda a
regular esos niveles”
“He
comprobado que las personas del tipo O que padecen el sfc reaccionan muy bien a
los suplementos de palo dulce y potasio, además de la dieta específica. El palo
dulce tiene muchos efectos sobre el organismo, pero en el hígado es donde más
se distingue. En los conductos biliares (donde ocurre la desintoxicación) llega
a ser más eficiente, brindando una mayor protección contra el daño químico. Esta
eliminación preliminar del estrés a nivel hepático parece influir positivamente
sobre las glándulas suprarrenales y el azúcar de la sangre, aumentando la energía
y desarrollando una sensación de bienestar. (Advertencia: por favor, no utilice
el palo dulce sin la supervisión de un médico.)”
Yo lo tomo cuando tengo problemas digestivos,
me asienta el estómago y me deja bastante buen cuerpo. Además se me reducen las
fasciculaciones.
Ese mezclote hay que probarlo.
Si he entendido bien, ¿haces una sola infusión
con las cuatro plantas, con cuatro cucharitas de cada para cuatro vasos?
De: sanarme2000
[mailto:kryda@...] Enviado el: jueves, 31 de marzo de
2005 13:19 Para:lyme_y_otras_zoonosis_cronicas_espanol@yahoogroups.com Asunto: [Lyme-E] MEZCLOTE DE
HIERBAS
MENUDA TONTERIA LA MIA DE NO PONER LAS HIERBAS
EN EL PRIMER MENSAJE, TANTO MISTERIO, A VECES NO SE EN LO QUE
PIENSO...., JA,JA,JA.
AL DIA MINIMO 4 VASOS DE LOS DE AGUA CON INFUSION
Y A PARTE LOS LIQUIDOS NORMALES QUE SUELO TOMAR.
TOMILLO-ANTIBIOTICO ROMERO-ANTINFLAMATORIO REGALIZ-INMUNOMODULADOR Y ENERGETIZANTE TE ROJO-DESINTOXICANTE
POR CADA VASO DE AGUA QUE PONGO EL PUÑADITO QUE PUEDA
COGER CON LOS DEDOS O UNA CUCHADADA DE CAFE DE CADA HIERBA.
KRYDA
Para
cancelar su suscripción a este grupo, envíe un mensaje de correo-e a: lyme_y_otras_zoonosis_cronicas_espanol-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Hola Krida
Pues no te creas que no has tenido una buena idea.
Tradicionalmente a esas hierbas se les atribuyen las propiedades que
comentas.
Son ademas asequibles y no tienes que recurrir a potinges caros,
dificiles de encontrar y "exclusivos" (lease modernos chamanes y
hechiceros e internet).
Me ha venido a la cabeza que hay un tal Baschetti en Italia que
comercializa un engrudo a base de regaliz que dice que para el sfc y
tal y tal.
El tio era un medico italiano convencido de que sfc y adison son
parientes cercanas.
Seria segun el un tema de suprarenales y de ahi viene lo del regaliz.
El tio metia su hociquillo en publicaciones medicas en los 90 con el
tema de las suprerenales y todo el rollo de los corticoides, que
parece que no han sido una buena idea para nadie a largo plazo.
Luego surgio lo de Baschetti Liquorice Extract que es algo entre
arcilla, manteca de cacahuete y explosivo plastico color marron
(hasta fotos hay del bote con el engrudo)
Regaliz en todo caso.
No promete cura, en eso es honrado, tan solo alivio sintomatico
mientras se consume.
Algun dia os contare el tema completo de las suprerenales.
Fui conejillo de indias de un hospital en el que el resultado
publicado fue lo del eje hipofisis-adrenal-pituitaria o algo asi.
Llegaron al punto de escanearnos las glandulas suprarenales (que yo
no sabia que existian) y la conclusion esta publicada:
Small adrenal glands in chronic fatigue syndrome: a preliminary
computer tomography study.
Scott LV, Teh J, Reznek R, Martin A, Sohaib A, Dinan TG.
Department of Psychiatry, Trinity College Dublin Medical School, St.
James's, Hospital, Ireland.
No inclusive or satisfactory biomedical explanation for chronic
fatigue syndrome (CFS) has as yet been forwarded. Recent research
suggests that a dysregulated hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis
(HPA) may be contributory, and in particular that there may be
diminished forward drive and adrenal under-stimulation. In this
preliminary study we wished to examine a cohort of CFS patients in
whom evidence for such hypofunctioning was found. Our aim was to
establish whether these patients had altered adrenal gland size.
Patients were recruited from a fatigue clinic. Those who fulfilled
the Centre for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) criteria
underwent a 1 microgram adrenocorticotropin (ACTH) stimulation test,
a test of adrenal gland functioning. Eight subjects (five females,
three males) with a subnormal response to this test underwent a
computer tomography (CT) adrenal gland assessment. Measurements were
compared with those from a group of 55 healthy subjects. The right
and left adrenal gland bodies were reduced by over 50% in the CFS
subjects indicative of significant adrenal atrophy in a group of CFS
patients with abnormal endocrine parameters. This is the first study
to use imaging methods to measure adrenal gland size in CFS. It is a
limitation of this study that a selected CFS sample was employed. A
future larger study would optimally employ an unselected cohort of
CFS patients. This study has implications not only for the
elucidation of CFS pathophysiology, but also for possible
therapeutic strategies.
PMID: 10451910 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
--- En
lyme_y_otras_zoonosis_cronicas_espanol@yahoogroups.com, "sanarme2000"
<kryda@e...> escribió:
>
> MENUDA TONTERIA LA MIA DE NO PONER LAS HIERBAS EN EL PRIMER
MENSAJE,
> TANTO MISTERIO, A VECES NO SE EN LO QUE PIENSO...., JA,JA,JA.
>
> AL DIA MINIMO 4 VASOS DE LOS DE AGUA CON INFUSION Y A PARTE LOS
> LIQUIDOS NORMALES QUE SUELO TOMAR.
>
> TOMILLO-ANTIBIOTICO
> ROMERO-ANTINFLAMATORIO
> REGALIZ-INMUNOMODULADOR Y ENERGETIZANTE
> TE ROJO-DESINTOXICANTE
>
> POR CADA VASO DE AGUA QUE PONGO EL PUÑADITO QUE PUEDA COGER CON
LOS
> DEDOS O UNA CUCHADADA DE CAFE DE CADA HIERBA.
>
> KRYDA
MENUDA TONTERIA LA MIA DE NO PONER LAS HIERBAS EN EL PRIMER MENSAJE,
TANTO MISTERIO, A VECES NO SE EN LO QUE PIENSO...., JA,JA,JA.
AL DIA MINIMO 4 VASOS DE LOS DE AGUA CON INFUSION Y A PARTE LOS
LIQUIDOS NORMALES QUE SUELO TOMAR.
TOMILLO-ANTIBIOTICO
ROMERO-ANTINFLAMATORIO
REGALIZ-INMUNOMODULADOR Y ENERGETIZANTE
TE ROJO-DESINTOXICANTE
POR CADA VASO DE AGUA QUE PONGO EL PUÑADITO QUE PUEDA COGER CON LOS
DEDOS O UNA CUCHADADA DE CAFE DE CADA HIERBA.
KRYDA
HOLA:
DESDE HACE UN MES ESTOY ATRAVESANDO UNA DE ESAS CRISIS QUE NO ME HAN
DEJADO NI SALIR DE CASA.
DESDE HACE UNO 2 DIAS SOLAMENTE, QUE ESTOY PROBANDO UNA MEZCLA DE
HIERBAS DE LAS QUE ME TOMO UNOS 4 VASOS DE LOS DE AGUA, COMO MINIMO,
AL DIA Y SORPRESA HOY ESTOY COMO HACE AÑOS QUE NO ME ENCONTRABA
(DOLORES, OJOS, MOVILIDAD, COORDINACION, RIGIDEZ, MENTE, CABEZA,
ETCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC.
TAL VEZ SEA MUY PRONTO PARA VER RESULTADOS PERO, COMO HOY ME
ENCUENTRO FANTASTICA, ESTOY LOCA POR CONTARLO A TODO EL MUNDO.
ESPERARE VARIOS DIAS Y SI ME SIGUE FUNCIONANDO OS PASO EL TRUCO DEL
ALMENDRUCO, JA, JA, JA,........QUE SEGURO QUE NO ME CURA PERO, ME
HACE SENTIR DE P... MADRE.
KRYDA
¿Sal?
Pues os cuento que un paciente de sfc, que además fue
picado en dos ocasiones que él recuerde por
garrapatas, me decía hace unos meses que se siente
mejor con un café con varias cucharadas de sal. Es lo
que mejor le ha funcionado hasta ahora.
--- juanca <juancaqd@...> wrote:
>
> http://www.lymephotos.com/
>
>
> After 13 years of suffering with Lyme disease, a
> possible cure has been stumbled upon. A cumulative
> effect of much research has produced the possibility
> that salt and vitamin C may be all that is needed to
> beat this elusive illness. Without going into a lot
> of detail, our theory is that Lyme is not just a
> bacterial disease, but also an infestation of
> microfilarial worms. Bacteria, worms, internal mites
> and the possibility of other creatures have been
> quite horrifying. Ticks can transfer many types of
> pathogens into the body of their host. It is also
> possible that the tick could pick up a new pathogen
> and pass it on to their next host, explaining why
> Lyme patients have different types of organisms
> within their bodies. Shortly after starting the
> treatment, we were shocked by the presence of the
> worms. Microfilarial worms live symbiotically with
> bacteria. They protect the bacteria from being
> exterminated by the antibiotics. Our theory is that
> the microfilarial worm, though possibly a nematode,
> is a parasitic nematomorph which we name Paragordius
> Lyme Incorporehumani. The Lyme bacteria is Borrelia
> burgdorferi, named after Willy Burgdorfer. After
> experimenting with the treatment of salt and vitamin
> C, we settled on a dosage of 12-one gram tablets of
> salt and 12-1,000 mg tablets of vitamin C, spaced
> throughout the day. The brand of salt pill is
> CMC(Consolidated Midland Corporation),
> NDC#0223-1760-01, ordered through a pharmacy (no
> prescription required) and the vitamin C used is a
> GNC product, though any good quality vitamin C pill
> should work. We have no relationship with either
> company. The Treatment can be grueling; taking it
> with food may aid in digestion. The results should
> be almost instantaneous. The Herxheimer reaction is
> an excretion of toxins from dying organisms; this
> will be experienced. Diarrhea will occur as your
> body sheds itself of the pathogens. The die-off will
> occur in cycles. Try to stick with it; it is well
> worth the inconvenience. Remember to drink plenty of
> water. Water is an important factor, not just in
> keeping yourself hydrated, but to make sure the
> treatment is circulating through your entire body.
> Salt is an electrolyte which your body needs to
> function properly. Please proceed through the next
> 16 pages on our journey to a cure. You can click on
> any photo and get a larger view and a little more
> info. The photographs are untouched and no dyes were
> added. Our specimens have been saved in case the
> integrity of the website is questioned. The last
> page will attempt to explain how this conclusion was reached.
______________________________________________
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Nuevos servicios, más seguridad
http://correo.yahoo.es
After 13 years of suffering with Lyme disease, a possible cure has been stumbled upon. A cumulative effect of much research has produced the possibility that salt and vitamin C may be all that is needed to beat this elusive illness. Without going into a lot of detail, our theory is that Lyme is not just a bacterial disease, but also an infestation of microfilarial worms. Bacteria, worms, internal mites and the possibility of other creatures have been quite horrifying. Ticks can transfer many types of pathogens into the body of their host. It is also possible that the tick could pick up a new pathogen and pass it on to their next host, explaining why Lyme patients have different types of organisms within their bodies. Shortly after starting the treatment, we were shocked by the presence of the worms. Microfilarial worms live symbiotically with bacteria. They protect the bacteria from being exterminated by the antibiotics. Our theory is that the microfilarial worm, though possibly a nematode, is a parasitic nematomorph which we name Paragordius Lyme Incorporehumani. The Lyme bacteria is Borrelia burgdorferi, named after Willy Burgdorfer. After experimenting with the treatment of salt and vitamin C, we settled on a dosage of 12-one gram tablets of salt and 12-1,000 mg tablets of vitamin C, spaced throughout the day. The brand of salt pill is CMC(Consolidated Midland Corporation), NDC#0223-1760-01, ordered through a pharmacy (no prescription required) and the vitamin C used is a GNC product, though any good quality vitamin C pill should work. We have no relationship with either company. The Treatment can be grueling; taking it with food may aid in digestion. The results should be almost instantaneous. The Herxheimer reaction is an excretion of toxins from dying organisms; this will be experienced. Diarrhea will occur as your body sheds itself of the pathogens. The die-off will occur in cycles. Try to stick with it; it is well worth the inconvenience. Remember to drink plenty of water. Water is an important factor, not just in keeping yourself hydrated, but to make sure the treatment is circulating through your entire body. Salt is an electrolyte which your body needs to function properly. Please proceed through the next 16 pages on our journey to a cure. You can click on any photo and get a larger view and a little more info. The photographs are untouched and no dyes were added. Our specimens have been saved in case the integrity of the website is questioned. The last page will attempt to explain how this conclusion was reached.
I thought I posted this earlier - it must have got lost. Just a comment on this article. Borrelia bacteria have been around for a long time, as shown by the Natural History Museum study, well before they started biological warfare. The strains in the UK and Europe are different from the USA strain.
First let's begin with a discussion of what properties constitute an effective biological warfare agent. The Media, The Centers For Disease Control and The Department of Defense would have us believe that the most threatening biological agents are lethal microbes which cause acute disease and then death...such as anthrax and smallpox. It appears that we are being intentionally misled as to where the real danger lies.
Government biological warfare documents speak of incapacitating agents as being the most effective at disabling a nation. When a population is infected with a lethal agent, it is very obvious that measures need to be taken such as quarantine, antibiotics, etc. This helps to curb and abort the epidemic.
A much more discreet, diabolical and effective method of disabling a country would be to employ a moderately infectious organism or combination (Russian Doll Cocktails) which would pass slowly through the population unnoticed. Some of the criteria for effective disabling agents are:
1. A biological agent which lacks objective signs that can be determined by medical testing. Many patients who are extremely ill with mycoplasma or lyme infections are told all their tests are normal therefore their problems must be all in their heads. Many people labeled with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and Fibromyalgia are told the same thing....if they would only get a new job, hobby or begin to excercise...then they would be fine.
2. An agent which would produce so many symptoms throughout the body that it would appear that the patient was malingering or faking. This criteria prevents the medical community from taking the disease seriously and in the meantime it passes quietly through the population being labeled as many separate diseases and conditions.
3. If the disabling agent is a combination of several diseases, some of which could be genetically engineered, then it becomes very difficult if not impossible to diagnose and treat.
4. Diseases which are spread by insect vectors are very much sought after. This makes an epidemic much easier to pass off as a natural event while concealing the identity of the perpetrators.
Dr. Donald MacArthur who was in charge of the developement and testing of biological weapons for the Pentagon had this to say at a Hearing before a Subcommittee of the Committee on Appropriations in 1969.
"Incapacitating agents are a more recent developement and are largely in the R&D phase (in 1969). In fact the prime emphasis in agent R&D is on developing better incapacitating agents. We are synthesizing new compounds and testing them in animals. I should mention that there is a rule of thumb we use before an agent can be classified as an incapacitant, we feel that the mortality should be very low. Therefore the ratio of the lethal dose to the incapacitating dose has to be very high. Now this is a technical job. We have some of the top scientists in the country working for years on how to get more effective incapacitating agents. It is not easy." He also tells us that an incapacitating agent "imposes a greater logistic burden on the enemy when he has to look after the disabled people."
When a large portion of the population is sick and unable to work, this puts an enormous strain on the economy. I predict that if we do not make this issue an immediate priority, our country will indeed become quickly disabled.
The next logical question would be...does Lyme Disease and it's coinfections fit into this scenerio? Certain doctors and researchers feel that lyme disease and it's coinfections....such as mycoplasma fermentens (patented by the U,S. Army) are actually microrganisms with excellent credentials for qualifying as disabling biowarfare agents..
Much controversey surrounds the diagnosis and treatment of Lyme Disease and mycoplasma induced illnesses such as Gulf War Illness. Professor Garth Nicolson and Lieutenant Joyce Riley....among others...are seeing evidence everywhere that one cause of Gulf War Illness is microbial and that it is spreading to the families of the veterans and then on to the public in general. Many who become ill with this mycoplasma and or the lyme spirochete are being divided up into separate disease labels such as Multiple Sclerosis, Fibromyalgia, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, Alzheimer's, Bi Polar Depression, Lupus,, ALS, etc. Most of these disease labels have no known definitive tests, causes or cures...only symptomatic treatments.
The Lyme Spirochete (borrelia burgdorferi..Bb ) and mycoplasma fermentens are both extremely pathogenic and can cause problems in every body system. In fact they present with symptoms so similar to each other that one has to wonder what the connection is. Sufferers of Lyme Disease are very often coinfected with mycoplasmas, babesia, erlichiosis, Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever and certain viruses. We are told that Lyme Disease has been around for hundreds of years and that ticks are filthy organisms which can spread many diseases in one single bite. This apppears to be true but is this due to a natural evolutionary process or is this sudden proliferation of countless coinfections a process which has had some help from biowarfare researchers? Are all these ticks carrying multipathogens naturally this way or are they the result of The Russian Doll Cocktail concept? Have ticks themselves been modified to endure harsh weather extremes? The ticks that carry Lyme Disease appear to be surviving in climates previously inhospitable to this species. In fact this disease is becoming endemic in many parts of the world at once and seems to be just as controversial everywhere it spreads. Why is this? If Lyme Disease is an unaltered ancient organism then shouldn't the medical community be aware of it's very diverse symptom complex? Shouldn't they know that it is a Great Imitator such as it's close relative Syphilis? Global warming always seems to be one of the excuses used when insect vectors cross their climate boundaries...but maybe it's due to genetic engineering. For example...Ades Japonicus is a genetically altered strain of mosquito and is purported to be the most efficient vector for West Nile Virus. It just happened to appear over here....out of it's native habitat...just in time to be an efficient vector for the West Nile Virus outbreak.
Borrelia burgdorferi...Bb...the causative agent of Lyme Disease presents with persistent infection and is many times incurable with the standard antibiotic regimes. While usually antibiotics are necessary in controlling and improving the lyme infection, it appears the organism may never be totally erradicated. It is known that there are techniques used to enhance bacterial resistance to antibiotics. So....while on the one hand the medical authorities are warning us of the dangers of the overuse of antibiotics and even limiting their valid applications...on the other hand they are creating and perhaps even letting loose antibiotic resistant germs.
In 1984 Secretary of State Casper Weinberger reported "Normally harmless, non disease producing organisms could be modified to become highly toxic or produce disease which an opponent has no known treatment or cure." (Soviet Military Power, 1984, p. 73.
Patients are being denied antibiotics for chronic persistent lyme. Doctors who are treating these chronic patients are being investigated and many have already had their licenses removed. Many are told they are malingering...that they either have antibiotic seeking behavior, depression or autoimmune disease.
One could say that Bb is most definitely an excellent candidate as a biological warfare agent. Bb has been shown to pass from mother to fetus. Many feel that it can be sexually transmitted. Why are no studies being done in this area? It has been found in semen, tears, breast milk and other insects in addition to ticks. With lyme disease there is no immunity. One can be infected and reinfected. The disease is responsible for neuropsychiatric problems, marriages are often disrupted and patients are losing their jobs and their homes. Many of our nation's children are being labeled with learning disabilities when the cause is often lyme disease. I am also wondering if vaccines are contaminated with Bb and or mycoplasmas? Is there any way vaccine batches can be independantly studied? Well, there should be , don't you think?
I recieved an abstract the other day put out by Brookhaven National Labs. I am including it below and will let readers come to their own conclusions. It sounds to me as if it is felt that Bb, erlichia and babesia are biological warfare candidates.
Project Title: Rapid Detection and Identification of Zoonotic Pathogens
Abstract: DESCRIPTION (provided by applicant): Zoonotic pathogens including those transmitted by insect vectors are some of the most deadly of all infectious diseases known to mankind. In the past, wars and natural disasters were the main catalysts that promoted epidemics of these ancient afflictions, which are normally transmitted by fleas, lice and ticks.
Many of these diseases remain endemic in various regions of the world and therefore pose serious threats to U.S. armed forces troops and civilians who might enter endemic disease zones. A number of these agents have been further weaponized and are widely recognized as being the most significant biothreat agents.
Study of disease agents and development of rapid means for their detection take on added importance in light of the use of anthrax for a bioterror attack on the U.S.A. The aim of this proposal is to modify a novel DNA-based methodology we have developed for profiling genomic DNAs to permit rapid, cultivation-free differential detection and identification of biothreat infectious agents in their natural environments, including intermediate infected hosts, and clinical specimens from humans or infected animals.
We plan to use Borrelia burgdorferi, the arthropod-borne etiologic agent of Lyme disease and Yersinia pestis, the etiologic agent of plague, as our principle test agents to work through the systems. We will begin with B. burgdorferi since although it has a complicated life-cycle involving both arthropod and animal intermediates, it is easy to grow and we have extensive experience in working with it in different complex environments including ticks, rodents and human samples.
Thus it gives us the opportunity of detecting this pathogen in a variety of complex environments. We also have significant experience with characterizing and identifying subtle changes in the genome of Y. pestis utilizing genomic signature tags. We will use these methods as the foundation of new, high-throughput sequence-based systems to detect zoonotic and/or vector-borne biothreat agents such as Yersinia pestis, Francisella tularensis, Rickettsia ricketsii and other human pathogens such as Ehrlichia and Babesia species.
This technology can ultimately be adapted as a sensitive method to detect specific DNA signature sequences from both known and unknown pathogens in a wide variety of complex environments and since it is PCR-based it has the advantage that only minimal quantities of starting material are needed for analysis.
ICD: NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES
IRG: ZAI1
It is interesting to note that many of the first outbreaks of these diseases occurred in areas adjacent to military or biological testing facilities such as Plum Island. In fact Erlichia Chaffiensis, one of the tickborne coinfections, is actually named after Fort Chaffi where it was first isolated. The United States has a long history of conducting field experiments on it's own citizens without their knowledge or consent. The U.S. Code, Sec. 50 states it is legal to do so.
When I speak to others concerning the possibility that our country is already being intentionally decimated by several insiduous pathogens, they find it hard to believe that certain officials in our government may be allowing this to happen.
In relation to this concern I would like to include part of an e- mail which was sent to me by one of those government officials. I had written an article concerning the fear mongering surrounding the flu vaccine issue being promoted by The Powers That Be. Someone from the government saw my article and posted it to one of their private lists. A congressman on this list then temporarily added me to this list because they were discussing my article. It was being sarcastically criticized and I responded back to them. The gentleman who had been the most negative with his comments was surprised to find out I had been able to read his comments. Part of his response to me, which follows, is an indication of the mindset of some of our leaders.
He was asking me if I really thought that the article "Manipulation Through Fear...And It's Working" would really wake people up. While he agreed that the press was manipulating us....listen to his other thoughts. "If someone is stupid enough to wait in a 2 hour line for a flu shot or withdraw half of their child's college savings to buy 6 years worth of non perishable food and gas masks for their Y2K bunker, don't you think they deserve it? Perhaps the real question is, why are Americans so stupid and gullible to believe everything we read in the media, or to go further, every piece of forwarded chain e-mail we read spurting off the latest conspiracy theory? The way I see it, it's social Darwinism baby. And the more morons that leave this God forsaken earth, the happier I am. After all, I don't want to be sharing my rations with anyone in my WMD bunker. By the way, I am one of those "Powers that Be" :=) You must infiltrate before you can make the system capitulate."
I wrote back to him briefly expressing my sadness that he must have had many difficulties in life to harden his heart so.
I have spoken to a Red Cross pathologist who admitted that the Red Cross does not screen it's blood supply for Lyme Disease or Mycoplamsa Fermentens. Our Department of Defense knows that these pathogens are spreading through the population. Instead of taking preventative actions our government is actually blocking proper research, education, testing, diagnosis and treatment.
We need to make these institutions accountable for their crimes against humanity.
Fibromyalgia, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and Lyme Disease
by Bonnie Gorman RN
Dr Sam Donta presented a comprehensive, compassionate, cutting-edge lecture to Mass. CFIDS/FM Association members on November 3rd, 2002. His topic was "The Interface of Lyme Disease with CFS and FM: Diagnostic and Treatment Issues." Dr. Donta is a nationally recognized expert on Lyme disease. He is the Director of the Lyme Disease Unit at Boston Medical Center and a Professor of Medicine at BU Medical School. He is a bacteriologist and an infectious disease specialist, who views CFS and FM from that vantage point. He is also a consultant to the National Institutes of Health (NIH), and presented at NIH's scientific meetings on CFS research.
What does Lyme disease have to do with CFS and FM you might be asking? Some people believe that Lyme disease may be one of the causative factors in both CFS and FM. Others believe that some CFS and FM patients are really misdiagnosed chronic Lyme disease patients and vice versa. Some believe that there is no such thing as chronic Lyme disease, instead these patients actually have CFS or FM. We asked Dr. Donta to help sort all this out.
Parallel Symptom Patterns
Dr. Donta presented the symptom lists for chronic Lyme disease, chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS), fibromyalgia (FM), and Gulf War Illness (GWI). He pointed out the similarities between them, and found there were few differences. He has treated hundreds of patients with these illnesses. He found that CFS and GWI have identical symptoms, and FM is only distinguished by a positive tender point exam, that is often positive in CFS and GWI as well. Clinically it is almost impossible to distinguish or differentiate these illnesses.
He has concluded that chronic Lyme disease is remarkably similar to CFS, FM, and GWI. These multi-symptom disorders have similar symptom patterns consisting of fatigue and neurocognitive dysfunction, along with numerous other symptoms that probably relate to altered neurological function. Musculoskeletal symptoms may be more frequent in FM and in some patients with chronic Lyme than in CFS, but the definition of CFS and GWI also includes muscle aches (myalgias) and joint aches (arthralgias).
Lyme Disease Symptoms
Flu-like illness, fever, malaise, fatigue, headache, muscle aches (myalgia), and joint aches (arthralgia), intermittent swelling and pain of one or a few joints, "bull's-eye" rash, early neurologic manifestations include cognitive disorders, sleep disturbance, pain, paresthesias (including numbness, tingling, crawling and itching sensations), as well as cognitive difficulties and mood changes.
The only symptom difference in Lyme disease is the expanding circular rash with a clearing area and center resembling a "bull's eye." He pointed out that Lyme has multiple types of rashes and half of the rashes are not typical, they may not even include the "bull's eye" rash. They can appear from two day after the bite, then go on for a week or so. Patients who are infected may not develop or see the rash, and may not develop any future symptoms. In studies, only one third of the patients were actually aware of their tick bites.
30-50% of acute Lyme disease patients went on to develop chronic Lyme disease. Additionally, some previously asymptomatic patients may reactivate their infection following various stressors such as trauma, surgery, pregnancy, coexisting illness, antibiotics treatment, or severe psychological stress. The Lyme vaccine can also reactivate their infection. Similar triggers such as trauma, surgery etc. are known to precipitate CFS, FM and GWI as well. This is not a new phenomenon with infectious diseases. We know infectious diseases (i.e. TB) will reactivate after illnesses or surgery-- any stressor.
Dr. Donta reported on the effects of gender on host susceptibility in Lyme disease, CFS, FM and other multi-symptom diseases. In all these disorders, women appear to be more affected than men, usually at about 2:1 ratios. He noted that neural cells contain estrogen and progesterone receptors, and that herpes viruses can utilize estrogen receptors to gain access to the reservoir in the cell nucleus. Treatment of chronic Lyme disease also seems to be gender-dependent to some degree, with men generally having more speedy and complete recoveries compared to women. He concluded that gender relationships are known for a number of infectious diseases, so it would not be surprising that such a relationship exists for chronic Lyme disease, CFS, FM and other multi-symptom disorders.
Etiology
Lyme Disease: A distinct difference between Lyme disease, CFS and FM is that the origin of Lyme is clear. Lyme disease is caused by spirochetal bacteria transmitted by the bite of an infected deer tick. This bacteria is the Borrelia burgdorferi bacteria. It was identified in the late 1900s in Europe. The US was late to recognize what Europe had described. Lyme disease was not formally identified by the CDC until 1977 when arthritis was observed in a cluster of children in and around Lyme, CT. Since that time Lyme disease has been identified in many states. The CDC reports that it causes more than 16,000 infections per year in the US. Some researchers feel that the prevalence is higher than that.
CFS and FM: Dr. Donta feels that Lyme disease is an important cause of CFS and FM. In addition to Lyme, there are a number of other possible causes. The evidence is still circumstantial though. Epstein-Barr virus (EBV), the major cause of infectious mononucleosis, continues to be debated as a cause of CFS. It is uncertain whether EBV can cause symptoms other than fatigue, such as myalgias and arthralgias that are not seen during acute or reactivated EBV infection in patients who are being immunosuppressed, but it remains possible that EBV could cause one type of chronic fatigue disorder. There are also other herpes viruses i.e. HHV6 that are being evaluated as potential culprits.
Dr. Donta reported that recently recognized species of Mycoplasma (Mycoplasma fermentans, Mycoplasma genitalium) have been implicated in CFS, FM and GWI. These same bacteria have also been implicated as causative agents of rheumatoid arthritis, based on PCR-DNA evidence in patients with these disorders in which 50 percent are found to have the DNA of the Mycoplasma in circulating white blood cells, compared to 5-10 percent of a normal population. Whether the presence of this DNA represents past exposure or ongoing infection remains to be resolved. No long-term studies have yet been performed in patients with CFS and FM to determine whether the finding of Mycoplasma DNA persists over months or years or whether such patients have any evidence of other infection such as Lyme disease or infection with Chlamydia species.
Central Nervous System Involvement
Dr. Donta reported that in Lyme disease, the nervous system seems to be the primary target for the bacteria causing the disease. Patients with Lyme disease express many neurologic symptoms such as pain, paresthesias including numbness, tingling, crawling and itching sensations, as well as cognitive difficulties and mood changes. Even the joint pains and occasional arthritis appear to be neuropathic in origin, as anti-inflammatory agents such as ibuprofen and other nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAID) have little if any effect on the pain. Experimental evidence from animal models also affirm the localization of B. burgdorferi DNA to the nervous system. Dr. Donta postulates that the disease mechanisms could involve inflammatory responses, autoimmune responses or toxin-associated disruption of neural function. Any inflammatory responses appear to be weak, and there is no compelling evidence that Lyme disease is a result of immunopathologic mechanisms.
Commenting on his research, Dr. Donta speculated that if they are correct, and lyme bacteria is a nerve toxin that interferes with the transmission of the nerve impulse, then that is all you need to impede the normal flow of information. There is a lot of cross-talk in the nervous system. This toxin will decrease that cross-talk causing delayed responses resulting in cognitive problems-- the brain fog so commonly described in all these multi-symptom disorders.
Although the disease pathways for other possible causes of CFS and FM have not been defined, Dr. Donta postulates that the central nervous system would appear to be a logical target for other pathogens or other disease processes. These illnesses clearly affect the brain and are bound to cause many neurological manifestations. Any changes in immunologic function would not appear to be sufficient to explain the various symptoms, and are likely to be secondary to other disease processes.
He feels we have been thinking too simplistically about finding whole organisms replicating in chronic diseases. It is highly likely that there is no single cause for these illnesses. It's more likely that there are multiple causes-- different organisms causing the same final set of symptoms. Researchers need a better algorithm to study these fatiguing illnesses. We need to be more inclusive, rather than trying to separate the illnesses. Sometimes in medicine, if an illness is too complex to study, research interest dwindles. We have the technology to do the research, but there hasn't been the will and the momentum to get it done.
Clinical Diagnosis
Dr. Donta reiterated that the diagnosis of Lyme disease is primarily based on clinical grounds, just as with CFS and FM. Once other disorders are ruled out, the combination of symptoms over months is sufficient to make a presumptive clinical diagnosis. The diagnosis of Lyme is made easier if a typical rash is present during the early phase of infection. After that, it is difficult to distinguish the flu-like illness that can occur a few weeks later, or can recur over a number of months.
Dr. Donta reported that some patients develop severe headaches and an aseptic (infection free) meningitis, which frequently is diagnosed instead as viral meningitis. If a Bell's palsy occurs (drooping of one side of the face), the possibility of Lyme disease is likely. If an unprovoked arthritis occurs, causing swelling of a single joint, especially the knee, but sometimes more than one joint, then the possibility of Lyme disease should also be given high consideration.
He emphasized that it is the chronic phase of the disease that causes most problems for physicians and patients, because of the lack of objective signs and the presence of so many symptoms that it causes some doctors to attribute psychological reasons for the patients' symptoms. Many patients then receive a diagnosis of CFS or FM, when they may have underlying chronic Lyme disease as the cause of their symptoms.
Diagnostic Tests
Tests for Lyme disease, like tests for other infectious diseases, are often confusing and circumstantial, and their analysis and interpretation has often been flawed. In infectious diseases you do a Western blot test to see if you have a specific reaction. Western blot separates out proteins antigens of an organism you are looking for. It tells you if a person has been exposed. It is not a direct measurement of the organism. It is a measurement of whether the person has antibodies to it. Antibody tests are useful in the early stages of illness as with other acute infectious illnesses. Once the illness is in a chronic phase, antibody tests are not useful.
Just as viruses change from year to year, we know the Lyme bacteria mutates. There are a number of organisms that can shift their surface protein in a matter of hours and that is how they evade detection and patients test negative. These organisms attach themselves to proteins and conceal themselves-- creating a cloaking mechanism that defies detection. This allows them to get where they want to go-- the nervous system. Once they are inside a cell, the immune system can't see them.
That said, Dr. Donta explained that lab tests have been helpful is some patients with Lyme disease, especially those with arthritis, in whom there are stronger antibody responses than in those with the chronic, multi-symptom form of Lyme. The criteria for the laboratory diagnosis has been patterned after the arthritic form of the disease, and not the chronic form; as a result, there are many physicians who are misinformed about the test's lack of value in chronic Lyme disease. The Lyme Western Blot is helpful when it shows reactions against specific proteins of B. burgdorferi, but can be negative in 25-30 percent of patients who otherwise have chronic Lyme disease.
PCR-DNA tests for Lyme in blood, urine and spinal fluid are rarely positive, most likely because the bacteria and their DNA are not present in those body fluids, but inside nerve cells. Additionally, PCR-DNA studies are very easy to contaminate.
In chronic Lyme disease, the MRI exam of the brain is positive in about 10-20 % of patients. It can show some white spots (unidentified bright objects- UBO) in various areas, similar to those seen in multiple sclerosis (MS), a neurologic disease of unknown cause that has some overlapping symptoms with Lyme disease, CFS and FM, such as the numbness and tingling or paresthesias. (There are also positive MRI findings in CFS and FM patients as well.)
Dr. Donta reported that the brain SPECT scan shows some changes in blood flow to various parts of the brain, primarily the temporal (cognitive processing) and frontal (mood) lobes in about 75 percent of patients with chronic Lyme disease. Patients with CFS have also been reported to have some brain SPECT scan changes, frequently involving the occipital lobe. No comparative studies have been made among patients with chronic Lyme disease, CFS and FM. The mechanisms underlying these changes remain to be defined, but may be due to a mild vasculitis (inflammation of blood vessels) or to a signaling problem within the nerve network of the brain in those specific areas. It is promising that these changes are reversible in most patients treated with antibiotics that appear to be effective in treating the chronic Lyme disease. These MRI changes are often slow and may take a year to reverse themselves.
These are covert organisms we are dealing with. We need more direct detection methods for blood, spinal fluid and other body fluids. How do you detect organisms in spinal nerve roots or brain? Right now we can't. Nobody is going to biopsy patients. We need an illness registry so we can do direct detection studies, particularly of the brain, after death.
Treatment: Persistence Pays Off
Dr. Donta reported that there are lots of drugs that are active against the Lyme bacteria in the test tube, but the big question is whether the drug can get to the bacteria? Lyme bacteria lives in the cells of the nervous system, perhaps other cells. Dr. Donta has experimented with various intracellular-type antibiotics. He reviewed his journey through various antibiotics. After listening to his patients he decided that some antibiotics were better than others. He then looked at clarithromycin (Biaxin) and azithromycin (Zithromax) which he found had powerful activity against Lyme bacteria in a test tube.
But the antibiotics, by themselves, did not seem to do any good. He found that you need to change the cellular pH (the degree of acidity or alkalinity), making it more or less acidic, to maximize the effectiveness of the antibiotic. This allows the antibiotic to work better i.e. doxycycline seemed to work better when the pH was higher. Dr. Donta has experimented with various agents to adjust pH i.e. amantadine (used to treat flu) and plaquenil (used to treat malaria). He just submitted proposals to NIH to study various agents to determine which is most effective.
Dr. Donta emphasized that the most important aspect of treatment is that it must be long-term-- 12-18 months, sometimes 24-36 months. This length is not unusual in the treatment of infectious diseases i.e. TB. In the first few months of treatment patients can expect an adverse reaction, symptoms will increase and you'll feel worse. You need to be able to hang in through this period, and allow 3-6 months of a treatment trial to determine if it is working. The earlier in the disease process that you start on treatment, the more successful it is. The more chronic the condition the less successful it is, and you'll need to treat over a longer period of time. This treatment resulted in substantial improvement and cures in 80-90% of patients with chronic Lyme disease. There are 10-20% who do not respond-- generally those with a strongly positive Lyme test.
Dr. Donta reported that similar results have been found in some patients with CFS and FM of unknown cause, supporting the hypothesis that some patients with CFS and FM have an underlying infection responsive to those antibiotics. Antibiotic trials in CFS and FM have been limited to one month, a duration that is inadequate to properly evaluate the potential of certain antibiotics to have a positive effect on the disease. Additional studies, examining both potential etiologic agents of CFS and FM as well as treatment trials should lead to a better understanding of both the cause and treatment of patients with CFS and FM.
Q&A
Q: If the Lyme lab tests are inadequate and the symptoms are the same as CFS and FM, why not just treat all CFS and FM patients with the Lyme protocol?
A: You want to be conservative with your medicines. I think we have enough info now to tell CFS and FM patients to consider going on a 3-6 month trial of antibiotics and see if you're better. Consider all the other meds you are already taking that just treat symptoms and not the cause of your illness. They all have side-effects that can be hazardous. Is it worth it to you to consider a primary treatment aimed at a cause? There will be resistance from some MDs. They need to be educated. Your primary MD will need to consult an LD specialist re the treatment protocol.
Q: Do patients with Lyme disease also have bowel and bladder problems like interstitial cystitis (IS) and irritable bowel syndrome (IBS)? How are they affected by treatment?
A: Yes, many patients with Lyme have IS and IBS. He was surprised how much the bowel disorders affected treatment. Tetracycline generally helps the IBS. Plaquenil can sometimes irritate the bowel.
Q: I have received different results for the western blot Lyme test. Why?
A: Lyme test results are not reproducible from one lab to the next. You will get different findings from different labs. The western blot is not a great test for Lyme since the responses to Lyme bacteria are already very small responses.
Q: I've been sick for 15 years with CFS and my Lyme test was negative. Is there any value in treating now?
A: If the test was negative but you have the complex of symptoms and there is no other obvious answer, why not give antibiotics a try.
Q: I had the Lyme vaccine then got Lyme symptoms. Why?
A: Lyme vaccine was pulled from the market because it was causing reactions and reactivating a slow onset of Lyme disease.
Q: What are the ocular problems in Lyme?
A: He sees optic neuritis, similar to that seen in atypical MS patients.
Q: Is there any Lyme connection to cutaneous lymphoma?
A: He has looked closely for any cancer/ Lyme associations, but has not seen many.
Q: Is there a connection with thyroid problems?
A: Thyroid problems are a very common co-existing condition with Lyme, as they are with CFS.
Q: How do I differentiate itching from allergic reactions?
A: The same sensory nerve fiber pathways that carry pain carry itching, numbness, tingling etc. Rash is common symptom. Rashes could be caused by medications, especially if they are body-wide. Is it an allergic reaction or hypersensitivity reaction? Get a complete blood count (CBC) with differential. Eosinophils will be elevated if allergic reaction. If not, then it's a hypersensitivity reaction. Treatments are similar.
Q: How do we get funding for research to advance these illnesses?
A: He stressed how important it is to combine advocacy and research efforts. Ultimately it will be a political solution. Get active legislatively in DC. The CFS Coordinating Committee is a very good forum. Lyme does not have anything like that. Groups need to work together, not fight with each other. There should be a coalition of all these groups. We also need to show insurance companies the benefits of primary treatment to patients, as well as to insurer's bottom line.
We are writing to let you know about some news which we feel is of great importance to people diagnosed with Myalgic Encephalomyelitis (ME) or Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (CFS). Recently Lyme Borreliosis sufferer Wendy Fox, who is critically ill, received an official response from the Department of Health which discussed the relationship of ME/CFS to Lyme disease. The government letter was in response to an event she had organised at Downing St, where a portfolio protesting the lack of treatment available for Lyme patients in the UK was handed in to Number Ten. This portfolio had included case histories of several dozen people with Lyme; the majority had at some point previously received a diagnosis of M.E. or CFS.
In their response to Ms. Fox dated 15 November 2004, the Dept. of Health wrote:
"A small proportion of patients develop fibromyalgia or chronic fatigue soon after Lyme disease,this suggests that B. burgdorferi may be one of a number of infectious agents that may trigger these disabling syndromes." (B. burgdorferi is the Lyme disease bacteria , Borrelia burgdorferi.)
The Dept. of Health also stated the following:
"There is some evidence to suggest that chronic fatigue, at least in some patients, may be associated with CNS [central nervous system] or meningeal disturbance. B. burgdorferi may be one of many triggers for this."
While the statement also claims that "Chronic fatigue or fibromyalgia of unknown cause may be misdiagnosed as Lyme borreliosis", we feel this is hardly likely to be an issue in Britain, where the awareness of Lyme borreliosis is so low that most doctors would not even consider it in their differential diagnosis, even though patients labelled with ME/CFS, have a complex symptomatology with many aspects apart from fatigue, and the clinical picture can often be identical with that of Lyme disease.
The Dept of Health further states that chronic fatigue triggered by Lyme "often does not respond to treatment". We are not aware of any body of medical evidence which supports this dismissive statement. It is very common to hear of Lyme patients, formerly diagnosed with ME/CFS who attest that they were helped or even cured by antibiotic or other treatments for Lyme disease. Further, studies have been published in the peer-reviewed literature, specifically describing the connection between Lyme and Chronic Fatigue and noting that treatment can indeed be beneficial.
Speaking at a recent meeting of the Massachusetts CFIDS-FM association, Sam Donta, Boston-based Professor of Medicine specialising in Lyme disease, who has published on the relationship between ME/CFS and Lyme, said:
"I think we have enough info now to tell CFS and FM patients to consider going on a 3-6 month trial of antibiotics and see if you're better. Consider all the other meds you are already taking that just treat symptoms and not the cause of your illness. They all have side-effects that can be hazardous. Is it worth it to you to consider a primary treatment aimed at a cause? There will be resistance from some MDs. They need to be educated. Your primary MD will need to consult an LD specialist re the treatment protocol." (1)
While the Government has clearly stated in this letter to the Lyme patient community that Lyme may be a cause of these syndromes, it does not appear that the Government has shared this information with those diagnosed with ME/CFS. We therefore felt the need to pass this information to you.
Below are some key points regarding Lyme borreliosis and its relationship to Chronic Fatigue. We hope you will find it useful. Please do not hesitate to contact us if you would like further information. Thank you.
There are epidemiologic studies demonstrating that "30-50-% of treated and untreated patients go on to develop a multisymptom disorder typical of, and indistinguishable from, fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue". (2) There are no blood tests available which are sensitive enough to reliably rule out the diagnosis of Lyme disease. (4) A clinical diagnosis, based on history, evolution and type of symptoms, clinical observations etc must be the main tool in deciding whether or not a patient has Lyme. (3) Information from blood tests is only supportive. The current UK Lyme blood testing policy is based on a two-tier method, with a screening test (ELISA) followed by a Western blot (Immunoblot) to confirm a positive result. However, ELISA’s have been shown to be totally inadequate as screening tests. Some sufferers will not show up on either the ELISA or the Immunoblot, which are both tests based on finding antibodies to the bacteria in the patient’s blood. Once into the second year of chronic disease, less than half of patients mount an antibody response detectable by currently used tests. (5)(7) There are hundreds of known strains of the Lyme bacteria; tests used in the UK may have variable sensitivity towards the different strains. A good response to antibiotics is supportive of a Lyme diagnosis as opposed to a viral or other diagnosis. However, people who have remained undiagnosed for many years may need a longer treatment and higher doses before improvement is seen. Moreover, it is very common for borreliosis sufferers to experience a temporary worsening early in the start of treatment. This is called the "Herxheimer" reaction, and is a normal response due to the release of toxins from the bacteria as they die off. Some sources indicate that Lyme borreliosis is always preceded by a tick bite and a classic "bullseye" shaped rash. In fact fewer than half of Lyme sufferers recall a tick bite or bullseye rash. (3) The most troublesome ticks are the nymphal ticks which can be as small as a full stop, and hide in out-of-the way areas like the armpit or hairline. Lyme can be acquired congenitally from an infected mother, and there is some evidence to suggest that it may be transmitted sexually and also by certain biting flies and other insect vectors apart from ticks.
Lyme disease may begin with mild symptoms resembling flu, then progress to a multi-symptom disease which can include any of the following: severe fatigue, migrating muscle and joint pains with or without arthritis, muscular spasms, heart problems, gastro-intestinal complaints, facial pain or paralysis of facial muscles, sleep disturbance, mood swings, headache, altered, impaired, or heightened sensation to noise, touch, temperature etc.. Children typically regress educationally and struggle to cope at school. The worst cases can produce disablement through fatigue, paralysis, severe heart disease and even psychosis. Neuropsychiatric symptoms can occur due to the penetration of the infection into the brain. However, the symptoms are caused by the infection – Lyme is not mental illness, hypochondria or somatisation. Exercise regimes can sometimes benefit Lyme patients but must be carefully monitored by a doctor or therapist experienced in the disease. They are used as part of a rehabilitation programme, not as a substitute for treatment to eradicate the infection. Leading Lyme specialist Dr Joseph Burrascano warns that aerobic exercise is harmful in a patient who has not fully recovered.
Lyme symptoms typically come and go; a patient may feel well one day and be unable to get out of bed the next. Lyme can go into remission and resurface years later. The bacteria are related to the germ that causes relapsing fever. There is evidence that Lyme can be worsened by other co-infections found in the same tick; some of these, such as rickettsia and mycoplasmas, have been directly linked with CFS. (6) New evidence emerges all the time, correlating ME/CFS disease process with Lyme and other tick-borne infections. For example, in 2003 a Polish study found 71% of borreliosis patients exhibiting the CFS clinical picture and concluded: "The findings suggest that the chronic fatigue syndrome is frequent among patients with a history of borreliosis." (7)
http://www.zoetecnocampo.com/Documentos/perro.htm
.........................................
Al igual que muchas otras especies de garrapatas, R. sanguineus cumple un
rol fundamental como vector de otras enfermedades víricas, protozoaricas,
bacterianas:
a. La garrapata dura del perro posee un papel epidemiológico en la difusión
de la enfermedad de Lyme o Borreliosis de Lyme, que es causada por Borrelia
burgdorferi y afecta a animales como a los perros, gatos, caballos y vacas,
y al hombre;
b. R. sanguineus también puede trasmitir Erlichia canis agente causal de la
erlichiosis canina, que puede causar a los canes desde una simple fiebre
hasta la muerte.
c. Es vector de la Rickettsia conorii, que es el agente causal de la Fiebre
botonosa (Fiebre exantemática mediterránea = F.E.M);
d. y de la Erlichiosis Humana.
Es importante destacar que R. sanguineus puede trasmitir desde un agente
causal secundario a varios de estos con una sola picadura. Esto se debe a
que cada vez que la garrapata succiona la sangre del hospedador no existe
límite de continuidad entre la circulación sanguínea de este y el intestino
del parásito. Además las garrapatas infectadas con cualquiera de estos
agentes pueden vivir años sin alimentarse y poder luego seguir transmitiendo
la enfermedad toda su vida.
--- En lyme_y_otras_zoonosis_cronicas_espanol@yahoogroups.com, "sanarme2000" <kryda@e...> escribió: > > HOLA A MIGUEL Y A TODOS: > > CREO QUE ES LA PRIMERA VEZ QUE ESCRIBO EN EL FORO PERO, DESDE HACE > ALGUN TIEMPO OS SIGO DETENIDAMENTE Y AHORA YA ESTOY DECIDIDA PARA > HACERME LOS ANALISIS DE LYME, SEGURAMENTE ESTA SEMANA O LA PROXIMA. > > AQUI OS MANDO TODA LA BATERIA DE ANALISIS QUE ME VOY A HACER CON EL > DR. DONTA, POR SI A ALGUNOS DE VOSOTROS ME SUGERIS ALGUNA MAS. > > Lyme, Mycoplasma, Brucella, Ehrlichia, Babesia, Bartonella, > Coxiella, Rickettsia y Theileria. > > MUCHOS DE VOSOTROS HABLAIS DE LA FIEBRE Q, ¿QUE ME PODEIS DECIR AL > RESPECTO? > > A DEMAS, EMPECE A ENFERMAR CUANDO HACE MUCHOS AÑOS VINE DE UNA > ESTANCIA DE APROXIMADAMENTE 1 AÑO DE PUERTO RICO, UN PAIS CARIBEÑO. > > ¿ALGUIEN DE VOSOTROS TIENE CONOCIMIENTO DE ALGUNA ENFERMEDAD QUE > PUDIERA HABER PILLADO ALLI?, YA QUE ME TENGO QUE HACER ANALISIS, VOY > A POR TODAS, JA,JA,JA,........ > > POR CIERTO, ACABO DE TERMINAR UN TRATAMIENTO PARA UNA INFECCION DE > ORINA CON CIPROFLOXACINO DE 500MG. CADA 12 HORAS, DURANTE 5 DIAS, > ¿CUANTO TIEMPO TENGO QUE ESPERAR PARA SACARME SANGRE? > > ANTICIPADAMENTE, OS DOY LAS GRACIAS A TODOS. > KRYDA
Para cancelar su suscripción a este grupo, envíe un mensaje de correo-e a: lyme_y_otras_zoonosis_cronicas_espanol-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
PERDON, PERDON!!!!!!
ES DR. BARBA, NO DONTA.
KRYDA
--- En
lyme_y_otras_zoonosis_cronicas_espanol@yahoogroups.com, "sanarme2000"
<kryda@e...> escribió:
>
> HOLA A MIGUEL Y A TODOS:
>
> CREO QUE ES LA PRIMERA VEZ QUE ESCRIBO EN EL FORO PERO, DESDE HACE
> ALGUN TIEMPO OS SIGO DETENIDAMENTE Y AHORA YA ESTOY DECIDIDA PARA
> HACERME LOS ANALISIS DE LYME, SEGURAMENTE ESTA SEMANA O LA PROXIMA.
>
> AQUI OS MANDO TODA LA BATERIA DE ANALISIS QUE ME VOY A HACER CON EL
> DR. DONTA, POR SI A ALGUNOS DE VOSOTROS ME SUGERIS ALGUNA MAS.
>
> Lyme, Mycoplasma, Brucella, Ehrlichia, Babesia, Bartonella,
> Coxiella, Rickettsia y Theileria.
>
> MUCHOS DE VOSOTROS HABLAIS DE LA FIEBRE Q, ¿QUE ME PODEIS DECIR AL
> RESPECTO?
>
> A DEMAS, EMPECE A ENFERMAR CUANDO HACE MUCHOS AÑOS VINE DE UNA
> ESTANCIA DE APROXIMADAMENTE 1 AÑO DE PUERTO RICO, UN PAIS CARIBEÑO.
>
> ¿ALGUIEN DE VOSOTROS TIENE CONOCIMIENTO DE ALGUNA ENFERMEDAD QUE
> PUDIERA HABER PILLADO ALLI?, YA QUE ME TENGO QUE HACER ANALISIS,
VOY
> A POR TODAS, JA,JA,JA,........
>
> POR CIERTO, ACABO DE TERMINAR UN TRATAMIENTO PARA UNA INFECCION DE
> ORINA CON CIPROFLOXACINO DE 500MG. CADA 12 HORAS, DURANTE 5 DIAS,
> ¿CUANTO TIEMPO TENGO QUE ESPERAR PARA SACARME SANGRE?
>
> ANTICIPADAMENTE, OS DOY LAS GRACIAS A TODOS.
> KRYDA
http://www.ins.gob.pe/RevistaPDF.asp?Rev_Cod=168
DETECCIÌN DE ANTICUERPOS CONTRA Borrelia burgdorferi E
IDENTIFICACIÌN DE GARRAPATAS IXODIDAS EN PIURA Y
AMAZONAS, PER
Martha Glenny A
1
, Leonardo Mendoza U
2
, Eduardo Falconí R
3
RESUMEN
Objetivos: Detectar anticuerpos IgG/IgM contra Borrelia burgdorferi en
población general, procedentes de los depar-
tamentos de Piura y Amazonas e identificar especies de garrapatas
probablemente incriminadas en la transmisión de
la enfermedad de Lyme. Material y Métodos: Entre agosto del año 2001 y junio
de 2002, se colectaron muestras de
sangre de 232 pobladores procedentes de ocho localidades del Departamento de
Piura y 12 del Departamento de
Amazonas, para evaluar mediante ELISA Captia
TM
Lyme IgG/IgM (Trinity biotech) la presencia de anticuerpos contra
Borrelia burgdorferi. Además, se colectaron garrapatas en animales
domésticos por búsqueda directa. Resultados:
Se detectó seropositividad en 9,9 % de los sueros evaluados. Asimismo, de
433 garrapatas colectadas se identifica-
ron los géneros: Ixodes (5,5%), Amblyomma (18,0%), Rhipicephalus (23,5%),
Anocentor (31,1%) y Boophilus (21,7%).
Conclusiones: Existen personas seropositivas por Borrelia en Piura y
Amazonas, coincidiendo con los hallazgos
realizados en Sapillica en el año 1992, además se detectó la presencia de
garrapatas del género Ixodes en Piura.
Palabras clave: Enfermedad de Lyme; Infecciones por Borrelia; Borrelia
burgdorferi; Test de Elisa; Garrapatas; Ixodidae;
Perú (fuente: BIREME).
ABSTRACT
Objective: To detect IgG/IgM antibodies against Borrelia burgdorferi in
persons coming from the Piura and Amazonas
departments, and to identify tick species probable related with Lyme's
disease transmission. Material and methods:
Between August 2001 and June 2002, blood samples were collected from 232
persons from eight sites in Piura and
from twelve sites in Amazonas, in order to determine the presence of
antibodies against B. burgdorferi using serological
testing. An ELISA Captia Lyme IgG/IgM Trinity Biotech was used. Tick
collection in domestic animals was directly
performed. Results: Positive results for the aforementioned antibodies were
found in 9,9% of the sera assessed. Also,
433 ticks of five genuses: Ixodes (5,5%), Amblyomma (18,01%), Rhipicephalus
(23,5%), Anocentor (31,1%) and
Boophilus (21,7%) were collected from domestic animals in seven sites in
Piura and in three sites in Amazonas.
Conclusions: There are persons seropositive for Borelia in Piura and in
Amazonas, these results are similar to the
findings at Sapillica reported in 1992. Also, ticks from the Ixodes genus
were detected in Piura.
Key words: Lyme Disease; Borrelia Infections; Borrelia burgdorferi;
Enzyme-Linked Immunosorbent Assay; Ticks
HOLA A MIGUEL Y A TODOS:
CREO QUE ES LA PRIMERA VEZ QUE ESCRIBO EN EL FORO PERO, DESDE HACE
ALGUN TIEMPO OS SIGO DETENIDAMENTE Y AHORA YA ESTOY DECIDIDA PARA
HACERME LOS ANALISIS DE LYME, SEGURAMENTE ESTA SEMANA O LA PROXIMA.
AQUI OS MANDO TODA LA BATERIA DE ANALISIS QUE ME VOY A HACER CON EL
DR. DONTA, POR SI A ALGUNOS DE VOSOTROS ME SUGERIS ALGUNA MAS.
Lyme, Mycoplasma, Brucella, Ehrlichia, Babesia, Bartonella,
Coxiella, Rickettsia y Theileria.
MUCHOS DE VOSOTROS HABLAIS DE LA FIEBRE Q, ¿QUE ME PODEIS DECIR AL
RESPECTO?
A DEMAS, EMPECE A ENFERMAR CUANDO HACE MUCHOS AÑOS VINE DE UNA
ESTANCIA DE APROXIMADAMENTE 1 AÑO DE PUERTO RICO, UN PAIS CARIBEÑO.
¿ALGUIEN DE VOSOTROS TIENE CONOCIMIENTO DE ALGUNA ENFERMEDAD QUE
PUDIERA HABER PILLADO ALLI?, YA QUE ME TENGO QUE HACER ANALISIS, VOY
A POR TODAS, JA,JA,JA,........
POR CIERTO, ACABO DE TERMINAR UN TRATAMIENTO PARA UNA INFECCION DE
ORINA CON CIPROFLOXACINO DE 500MG. CADA 12 HORAS, DURANTE 5 DIAS,
¿CUANTO TIEMPO TENGO QUE ESPERAR PARA SACARME SANGRE?
ANTICIPADAMENTE, OS DOY LAS GRACIAS A TODOS.
KRYDA
Prevención de zoonosis de origen laboral en la ganadería
Póster. 2º Congreso Internacional de Prevención de Riesgos Laborales. Gran Canaria 20-22 de febrero de 2002.
Mª Josefa Ruiz Figueroa Noemí García-Puente Centro Nacional de Medios de Protección INSHT cnmp@... Abstract
El sector ganadero que conlleva una serie de procesos relacionados con el manejo de los animales es importante en la economía de nuestro país. Los agentes biológicos, que hacen enfermar a los trabajadores, son un factor de riesgo en el mundo del trabajo ganadero que suponen un auténtico reto para el prevencionista. Para ayudar a la gestión del riesgo biológico en la ganadería presentamos unas guías preventivas que, para cada tipo de enfermedad, aconseja las pautas preventivas a seguir tanto en sus aspectos técnicos (actuaciones sobre el foco o el medio de transmisión) como en los aspectos sanitarios (vacunación, educación para la salud).
Al oír hablar de contaminantes, habitualmente se piensa en agentes físicos o químicos, y normalmente "contaminante biológico" hace pensar sólo en el riesgo de infección para los trabajadores de sanidad. La realidad es muy diferente, los contaminantes biológicos son:
una gran variedad de organismos vivos
capaces de producir una multiplicidad de alteraciones de salud
en gran número de actividades y de trabajadores expuestos.
En consecuencia, como prevencionistas debemos aproximarnos a los contaminantes biológicos como factor de riesgo laboral con una mentalidad más abierta y en disposición de valorar con más frecuencia una posible exposición y sus potenciales repercusiones sobre la salud de los trabajadores.
Los agentes biológicos son un factor de riesgo en el mundo del trabajo ganadero que suponen un auténtico reto para el prevencionista, pues a pesar del creciente interés por el control de microorganismos patógenos a partir del desarrollo de R.D.664/97, no existe un estudio específico de las medidas preventivas a adoptar en ganadería. Objetivos
Facilitar información que sirva de asesoramiento a los técnicos de prevención tras la evaluación de riesgos en ganadería.
Relacionar las distintas zoonosis con las medidas de prevención que se pueden llevar a cabo en cada caso.
Recomendar tanto medidas de prevención médica como actuaciones técnicas y en estas últimas hacer diferenciación entre las que se pueden llevar a cabo en el foco (ganado o reservorio) y en el medio de propagación (especialmente en el entorno de trabajo).
Orientar a los trabajadores directamente implicados en el contacto con animales sobre las medidas preventivas que deberían adoptar.
Dar a conocer los equipos de protección individual que podrían usarse en caso necesario. Método
Partiendo de la información obtenida en la identificación del riesgo laboral por agentes biológicos en la actividad ganadera, sabremos los grupos de riesgo de los agentes biológicos que pueden estar relacionados con las tareas a desempeñar por el trabajador, y por tanto sabremos:
1) el riesgo infeccioso al que están expuestos, 2) el riesgo de propagación a la colectividad, y 3) si existen medidas de profilaxis o tratamiento eficaz, en las que se basarán las principales acciones preventivas a adoptar en la prevención de las zoonosis.
Clasificamos estas acciones atendiendo al punto de la cadena de infección sobre el que se interviene:
El foco de la infección:
animales enfermos o portadores.
sus productos (fluidos biológicos, excrementos, purines…)
otros trabajadores enfermos o portadores.
donde los microorganismos son capaces de reproducirse.
El medio de transmisión, teniendo en cuenta:
Los principales mecanismos a través de los cuales se contraen enfermedades infecciosas:
Transmisión directa: por vía cutánea, parenteral o digestiva.
Transmisión aérea: por vía respiratoria.
A través de fómites.
A través de un vector.
Que se trata de interrumpir el progreso en la cadena de la infección mediante:
Acciones sobre las instalaciones y utensilios de trabajo.
Uso de equipos de protección personal.
Medidas higiénicas generales y específicas.
El trabajador como posible huésped o enfermo. Las acciones de prevención médica serán de:
Nivel primario, antes de que se produzca la infección:
Vacunas eficaces disponibles que el empresario facilitará a los trabajadores expuestos al riesgo o especialmente sensibles.
Quimioprofilaxis.
Programas de educación para la salud específicos para todos los trabajadores.
Nivel secundario:
Atención precoz en caso de puntura o herida.
Reconocimientos médicos específicos.
Nivel terciario, cuando ya se ha producido la enfermedad:
Notificación a las autoridades competentes.
LISTA DE ZOONOSIS ATRIBUIBLES AL TRABAJO EN GANADERÍA
ASCARIDIASIS
BRUCELOSIS
CAMPILOBACTERIASIS
CARBUNCO
CRIPTOSPORIDIOSIS
DERMATOSIS ZOOFÍLICAS
ECTIMA CONTAGIOSO
ENFERMEDAD DE LYME
ERISIPELOIDE
ESQUISTOSOMIASIS
ESTOMATITIS AFTOSA EPIZOÓTICA
FIEBRE Q
HELMINTIASIS
HIDATIDOSIS
HISTOPLASMOSIS
LEPTOSPIROSIS
MELIOIDOSIS
MUERMO
ORNITOSIS Y PSITACOSIS
RABIA
RICKETTSIOSIS
TÉTANOS
TOXOCARA
TOXOPLASMOSIS
TRIQUINOSIS
TUBERCULOSIS
TURALEMIA
Acciones sobre el foco
Control de incorporaciones
Control veterinario periódico
Evitar contaminación de comida
Evitar contaminación de bebida
Vacunación
Tratamiento adecuado
Aislamiento de animales enfermos
Control de fronteras
Restricción de movimiento de enfermos
Eliminación placentas y fetos abortados
Sacrificio de reses
Incineración de cadáveres
Enterramiento a profundidad de vísceras Acciones sobre el medio
Instalaciones
Ventilación adecuada
Humedecer el suelo antes de barrer
Desinfección química
Vestuarios y lavabos separados del ganado
Desinsectación
Desratización
Utensilios fáciles de limpiar
Buen mantenimiento
Higiene personal
Controlar el contacto persona-animal enfermo
No comer, beber ni fumar en zonas de trabajo
Lavar separadamente la ropa de trabajo
Cocinar suficientemente la carne
Pasteurizar la leche de consumo
Lavado de manos y brazos antes de comer
Lavado de manos y brazos tras contactos con animales
Evitar frotar los ojos con manos sucias
Precauciones especiales ante el contagio por vectores
No aplastar garrapatas en la piel
Ajustar ropa en muñecas y tobillos con un repelente de insectos
Equipos de protección individual
Usar ropa de protección adecuada
Guantes
Botas
Gafas
Mandiles
Mascarillas Prevención médica
Educación sanitaria a todos los trabajadores
Información a los trabajadores en riesgo especial
Vacunación de trabajadores expuestos
Tétanos: aplicada al ingreso, y una dosis de recuerdo cada 10 años
Rabia: sólo en trabajadores de zonas endémicas
Tratamiento precoz de las heridas
Reconocimientos médicos específicos
Notificación a las autoridades competentes Recomendaciones generales
Establecer y desarrollar buenos programas de sanidad veterinaria y vacunación.
Ventilación adecuada de los lugares de trabajo.
Utilizar prendas de protección adecuadas y guantes para tratar con animales enfermos.
Retirar la basura y los desechos de los alrededores de los edificios para impedir que se produzca la proliferación de vectores.
Lavar y/o desinfectar las manos y la ropa de trabajo siempre que sea necesario.
No comer, beber o fumar en el puesto de trabajo.
Dejar 10 minutos antes y después del trabajo para el aseo personal.
Disponer de un botiquín de primeros auxilios bien equipado.
Al administrar vacunas a los animales se tendrá en cuenta su comportamiento y los posibles pinchazos con agujas.
Prestar atención al control de las plagas (rodenticidas, insecticidas …) Referencias
Guía Técnica para la evaluación y prevención de los riesgos relacionados con la exposición de los agentes biológicos. INSHT Mº de Trabajo y Asuntos Sociales, 2001
OIT. Enciclopedia de Seguridad y Salud en el Trabajo. Madrid: Mº de Trabajo y Asuntos Sociales 1999
Schaechter M. Microbiología. Mecanismos de las enfermedades infecciosas, enfoque mediante resolución de problemas. Ed. Panamericana 1996
Robledo F. et al. Notas explicativas de ayuda al diagnóstico de enfermedades profesionales. Publicaciones Ppado. de Asturias, 1994
Hernández A. Evaluación y control de contaminantes biológicos en ambientes laborales. Madrid: Ed. INSHT. Documentos Técnicos, 1989
Martí Solé M.C., Alonso Espadalé R.M., Constans Aubert A., N.T.P 571-00. Exposición a agentes biológicos: Equipos de Protección Individual. INSHT, 2000
Alonso Espadalé R.M., Martí Solé M.C. Zoonosis de origen laboral N.T.P. 411-96. INSHT Mº de Trabajo y Asuntos Sociales, 1996
Martí Solé M.C.La inmunización activa: una herramienta de prevención. NTP 384-95 INSHT Mº de Trabajo y Asuntos Sociales, 1995
R.D. 1749/1998 Establece las medidas de control aplicables a determinadas sustancias y sus residuos en los animales vivos y sus productos.
R.D. 664/1997. Protección de los trabajadores contra los riesgos relacionados con la exposición a agentes biológicos durante el trabajo.
R.D. 2210/1995. Creación de la Red Nacional de Vigilancia Epidemiológica.
R.D. 2087/1994. Condiciones sanitarias de producción y comercialización de carnes frescas de aves de corral.
R.D. 2491/1994. Establece medidas de protección contra determinadas zoonosis y determinados agentes productores de zoonosis, procedentes de animales y productos de origen animal, a fin de evitar las infecciones e intoxicaciones procedentes de alimento.
R.D. 1995/1978. Cuadro de enfermedades profesionales.
Subject: RE: [Lyme-E] A alguien con borrelias le pasa o sabe de?
Amigos/amigas:
Fui diagnosticada con bart por un segundo LLMD. a pesar de que mis bart examenes dieron negativo. su conclusion fue porque sigo enferma a pesar de haber empezado tratamiento temprano junto unos symptomas clasicos del bart.
Tres o cuatro meses de levaquin. Me dijo que bart es mucho mas comun que el lyme.
Has seguido tratamiento de eliminación de toxinas continuado? De qué tipo? Ha sido efectivo? Te reportó ventajas frente a otros tratamientos?
Ya me contarás
Saludos
Fernando
De: juanca [mailto:juancaqd@...] Enviado el: lunes, 28 de marzo de 2005 23:51 Para: lyme_y_otras_zoonosis_cronicas_espanol@yahoogroups.com Asunto: Re: [Lyme-E] A alguien con borrelias le pasa o sabe de?
Te voy a decir lo que me pasaba a mi.
Veo zonas con la forma de lo que estaba mirando anteriormente como flashes .
No llego a lo que a ti te pasa pero antes del tratamiento veia cuando miraba a lo lejos
las cosas distorsionadas como si estubieran bajo el agua como alteraciones ondulares.
Lo del sobrecogimiento no se a lo que te refieres pero yo he sufrido como calambrazos en
la parte superior de la cabeza que me han dejado tieso durante unos segundos.
Subject: [Lyme-E] A alguien con borrelias le pasa o sabe de?
Hola Miguel,
Siempre a últimas horas de la tarde y por la noche, pasando por una baja situación mental y física, he tenido alteraciones visuales y flashes que nunca antes había experimentado. Puertas que se abren pero que en realidad no se abren, escaleras de madera que se comban con bastante curvatura, siempre objetos compuestos en extensión lineal, siempre con la vista muy borrosa. Los flashes consisten en reapariciones involuntarias de objetos, previamente visionadas, en color negro oscuro sobre un fondo también negro de menor tonalidad. Duran un microsegundo y vienen acompañados de un sobrecogimiento de todo el cuerpo.
Nunca antes me había pasado. Igual tienes conocimientos de algo semejante, literatura al respecto o hayas pasado o estés pasando por episodios análogos. Igual es mucho más normal de lo que me parece ahora.
Ya me contarás.
Un saludo
Fernando
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Subject: [Lyme-E] A alguien con borrelias le pasa o sabe de?
Hola Miguel,
Siempre a últimas horas de la tarde y por la noche, pasando por una baja situación mental y física, he tenido alteraciones visuales y flashes que nunca antes había experimentado. Puertas que se abren pero que en realidad no se abren, escaleras de madera que se comban con bastante curvatura, siempre objetos compuestos en extensión lineal, siempre con la vista muy borrosa. Los flashes consisten en reapariciones involuntarias de objetos, previamente visionadas, en color negro oscuro sobre un fondo también negro de menor tonalidad. Duran un microsegundo y vienen acompañados de un sobrecogimiento de todo el cuerpo.
Nunca antes me había pasado. Igual tienes conocimientos de algo semejante, literatura al respecto o hayas pasado o estés pasando por episodios análogos. Igual es mucho más normal de lo que me parece ahora.
Ya me contarás.
Un saludo
Fernando
Para cancelar su suscripción a este grupo, envíe un mensaje de correo-e a: lyme_y_otras_zoonosis_cronicas_espanol-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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Subject: RE: [Lyme-E] A alguien con borrelias le pasa o sabe de?
Amigos/amigas:
Fui diagnosticada con bart por un segundo LLMD. a pesar de que mis bart examenes dieron negativo. su conclusion fue porque sigo enferma a pesar de haber empezado tratamiento temprano junto unos symptomas clasicos del bart.
Tres o cuatro meses de levaquin. Me dijo que bart es mucho mas comun que el lyme.
Has seguido tratamiento de eliminación de toxinas continuado? De qué tipo? Ha sido efectivo? Te reportó ventajas frente a otros tratamientos?
Ya me contarás
Saludos
Fernando
De: juanca [mailto:juancaqd@...] Enviado el: lunes, 28 de marzo de 2005 23:51 Para: lyme_y_otras_zoonosis_cronicas_espanol@yahoogroups.com Asunto: Re: [Lyme-E] A alguien con borrelias le pasa o sabe de?
Te voy a decir lo que me pasaba a mi.
Veo zonas con la forma de lo que estaba mirando anteriormente como flashes .
No llego a lo que a ti te pasa pero antes del tratamiento veia cuando miraba a lo lejos
las cosas distorsionadas como si estubieran bajo el agua como alteraciones ondulares.
Lo del sobrecogimiento no se a lo que te refieres pero yo he sufrido como calambrazos en
la parte superior de la cabeza que me han dejado tieso durante unos segundos.
Subject: [Lyme-E] A alguien con borrelias le pasa o sabe de?
Hola Miguel,
Siempre a últimas horas de la tarde y por la noche, pasando por una baja situación mental y física, he tenido alteraciones visuales y flashes que nunca antes había experimentado. Puertas que se abren pero que en realidad no se abren, escaleras de madera que se comban con bastante curvatura, siempre objetos compuestos en extensión lineal, siempre con la vista muy borrosa. Los flashes consisten en reapariciones involuntarias de objetos, previamente visionadas, en color negro oscuro sobre un fondo también negro de menor tonalidad. Duran un microsegundo y vienen acompañados de un sobrecogimiento de todo el cuerpo.
Nunca antes me había pasado. Igual tienes conocimientos de algo semejante, literatura al respecto o hayas pasado o estés pasando por episodios análogos. Igual es mucho más normal de lo que me parece ahora.
Ya me contarás.
Un saludo
Fernando
Para cancelar su suscripción a este grupo, envíe un mensaje de correo-e a: lyme_y_otras_zoonosis_cronicas_espanol-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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Fui diagnosticada con bart por un segundo LLMD. a pesar de que mis bart examenes dieron negativo. su conclusion fue porque sigo enferma a pesar de haber empezado tratamiento temprano junto unos symptomas clasicos del bart.
Tres o cuatro meses de levaquin. Me dijo que bart es mucho mas comun que el lyme.
Fernando Almazán Gil <fernandoalmazn@...> wrote:
Hola Juanca.
Has seguido tratamiento de eliminación de toxinas continuado? De qué tipo? Ha sido efectivo? Te reportó ventajas frente a otros tratamientos?
Ya me contarás
Saludos
Fernando
De: juanca [mailto:juancaqd@...] Enviado el: lunes, 28 de marzo de 2005 23:51 Para: lyme_y_otras_zoonosis_cronicas_espanol@yahoogroups.com Asunto: Re: [Lyme-E] A alguien con borrelias le pasa o sabe de?
Te voy a decir lo que me pasaba a mi.
Veo zonas con la forma de lo que estaba mirando anteriormente como flashes .
No llego a lo que a ti te pasa pero antes del tratamiento veia cuando miraba a lo lejos
las cosas distorsionadas como si estubieran bajo el agua como alteraciones ondulares.
Lo del sobrecogimiento no se a lo que te refieres pero yo he sufrido como calambrazos en
la parte superior de la cabeza que me han dejado tieso durante unos segundos.
Subject: [Lyme-E] A alguien con borrelias le pasa o sabe de?
Hola Miguel,
Siempre a últimas horas de la tarde y por la noche, pasando por una baja situación mental y física, he tenido alteraciones visuales y flashes que nunca antes había experimentado. Puertas que se abren pero que en realidad no se abren, escaleras de madera que se comban con bastante curvatura, siempre objetos compuestos en extensión lineal, siempre con la vista muy borrosa. Los flashes consisten en reapariciones involuntarias de objetos, previamente visionadas, en color negro oscuro sobre un fondo también negro de menor tonalidad. Duran un microsegundo y vienen acompañados de un sobrecogimiento de todo el cuerpo.
Nunca antes me había pasado. Igual tienes conocimientos de algo semejante, literatura al respecto o hayas pasado o estés pasando por episodios análogos. Igual es mucho más normal de lo que me parece ahora.
Ya me contarás.
Un saludo
Fernando
Para cancelar su suscripción a este grupo, envíe un mensaje de correo-e a: lyme_y_otras_zoonosis_cronicas_espanol-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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Has seguido tratamiento de eliminación
de toxinas continuado? De qué tipo? Ha sido efectivo? Te reportó ventajas
frente a otros tratamientos?
Ya me contarás
Saludos
Fernando
De: juanca
[mailto:juancaqd@...] Enviado el: lunes, 28 de marzo de
2005 23:51 Para:
lyme_y_otras_zoonosis_cronicas_espanol@yahoogroups.com Asunto: Re: [Lyme-E] A alguien con
borrelias le pasa o sabe de?
Te voy a decir lo que me pasaba a mi.
Veo zonas con la forma de lo que estaba mirando
anteriormente como flashes .
No llego a lo que a ti te pasa pero antes del tratamiento
veia cuando miraba a lo lejos
las cosas distorsionadas como si estubieran bajo el agua
como alteraciones ondulares.
Lo del sobrecogimiento no se a lo que te refieres pero yo he
sufrido como calambrazos en
la parte superior de la cabeza que me han dejado tieso
durante unos segundos.
Subject: [Lyme-E] A alguien
con borrelias le pasa o sabe de?
Hola Miguel,
Siempre a últimas horas de la tarde y por la noche,
pasando por una baja situación mental y física, he tenido alteraciones visuales
y flashes que nunca antes había experimentado. Puertas que se abren pero que en
realidad no se abren, escaleras de madera que se comban con bastante curvatura,
siempre objetos compuestos en extensión lineal, siempre con la vista muy
borrosa. Los flashes consisten en reapariciones involuntarias de objetos,
previamente visionadas, en color negro oscuro sobre un fondo también negro de
menor tonalidad. Duran un microsegundo y vienen acompañados de un
sobrecogimiento de todo el cuerpo.
Nunca antes me había pasado. Igual tienes conocimientos de
algo semejante, literatura al respecto o hayas pasado o estés pasando por
episodios análogos. Igual es mucho más normal de lo que me parece ahora.
Ya me contarás.
Un saludo
Fernando
Para
cancelar su suscripción a este grupo, envíe un mensaje de correo-e a: lyme_y_otras_zoonosis_cronicas_espanol-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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cancelar su suscripción a este grupo, envíe un mensaje de correo-e a: lyme_y_otras_zoonosis_cronicas_espanol-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Lo del sobrecogimiento es un pequeño
calambre en todo el cuerpo, un pequeño respingo, muy súbito. Se produce durante
el mismo flash.
De: jjurra
[mailto:jjurra@...] Enviado el: martes, 29 de marzo de
2005 0:17 Para:
lyme_y_otras_zoonosis_cronicas_espanol@yahoogroups.com Asunto: RE: [Lyme-E] A alguien con
borrelias le pasa o sabe de?
Me identifico con lo que dices.
Imagen que persiste o se traslada cuando ya ha
desaparecido, como una marca de agua.
La luz que se queda en los ojos despues de
apagada.
Luces, destellos, parpadeos, barras, vibracion,
iluminacion en la obscuridad mas absoluta.
Y algunas cuantas cosas mas.
Javier
--- En lyme_y_otras_zoonosis_cronicas_espanol@yahoogroups.com,
"juanca" <juancaqd@t...> escribió: > Te voy a decir lo que me pasaba a mi. > > Veo zonas con la forma de lo que estaba mirando
anteriormente como flashes . > No llego a lo que a ti te pasa pero antes del
tratamiento veia cuando miraba a lo lejos > las cosas distorsionadas como si estubieran
bajo el agua como alteraciones ondulares. > Lo del sobrecogimiento no se a lo que te
refieres pero yo he sufrido como calambrazos en > la parte superior de la cabeza que me han
dejado tieso durante unos segundos. > Todo esto es típical lyme. > > J.C > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Fernando Almazán Gil > To: Lyme
- E > Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 7:58
PM > Subject: [Lyme-E] A alguien con
borrelias le pasa o sabe de? > > > Hola Miguel, > > > > Siempre a últimas horas de la
tarde y por la noche, pasando por una baja situación mental y física, he tenido alteraciones
visuales y flashes que nunca antes había experimentado.
Puertas que se abren pero que en realidad no se abren, escaleras de
madera que se comban con bastante curvatura, siempre objetos compuestos
en extensión lineal, siempre con la vista muy borrosa. Los
flashes consisten en reapariciones involuntarias de objetos,
previamente visionadas, en color negro oscuro sobre un fondo también negro de
menor tonalidad. Duran un microsegundo y vienen acompañados de un
sobrecogimiento de todo el cuerpo. > > > > Nunca antes me había pasado.
Igual tienes conocimientos de algo semejante, literatura al respecto o hayas pasado o
estés pasando por episodios análogos. Igual es mucho más normal de
lo que me parece ahora. > > > > Ya me contarás. > > > > Un saludo > > > > Fernando > > > > > > Para cancelar su suscripción a
este grupo, envíe un mensaje de correo-e a: >
lyme_y_otras_zoonosis_cronicas_espanol- unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > >
Patrocinio de Yahoo! Grupos > > > >
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Me identifico con lo que dices.
Imagen que persiste o se traslada cuando ya ha desaparecido, como
una marca de agua.
La luz que se queda en los ojos despues de apagada.
Luces, destellos, parpadeos, barras, vibracion, iluminacion en la
obscuridad mas absoluta.
Y algunas cuantas cosas mas.
Javier
--- En
lyme_y_otras_zoonosis_cronicas_espanol@yahoogroups.com, "juanca"
<juancaqd@t...> escribió:
> Te voy a decir lo que me pasaba a mi.
>
> Veo zonas con la forma de lo que estaba mirando anteriormente como
flashes .
> No llego a lo que a ti te pasa pero antes del tratamiento veia
cuando miraba a lo lejos
> las cosas distorsionadas como si estubieran bajo el agua como
alteraciones ondulares.
> Lo del sobrecogimiento no se a lo que te refieres pero yo he
sufrido como calambrazos en
> la parte superior de la cabeza que me han dejado tieso durante
unos segundos.
> Todo esto es típical lyme.
>
> J.C
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Fernando Almazán Gil
> To: Lyme - E
> Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 7:58 PM
> Subject: [Lyme-E] A alguien con borrelias le pasa o sabe de?
>
>
> Hola Miguel,
>
>
>
> Siempre a últimas horas de la tarde y por la noche, pasando por
una baja situación mental y física, he tenido alteraciones visuales
y flashes que nunca antes había experimentado. Puertas que se abren
pero que en realidad no se abren, escaleras de madera que se comban
con bastante curvatura, siempre objetos compuestos en extensión
lineal, siempre con la vista muy borrosa. Los flashes consisten en
reapariciones involuntarias de objetos, previamente visionadas, en
color negro oscuro sobre un fondo también negro de menor tonalidad.
Duran un microsegundo y vienen acompañados de un sobrecogimiento de
todo el cuerpo.
>
>
>
> Nunca antes me había pasado. Igual tienes conocimientos de algo
semejante, literatura al respecto o hayas pasado o estés pasando por
episodios análogos. Igual es mucho más normal de lo que me parece
ahora.
>
>
>
> Ya me contarás.
>
>
>
> Un saludo
>
>
>
> Fernando
>
>
>
>
>
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Subject: [Lyme-E] A alguien con borrelias le pasa o sabe de?
Hola Miguel,
Siempre a últimas horas de la tarde y por la noche, pasando por una baja situación mental y física, he tenido alteraciones visuales y flashes que nunca antes había experimentado. Puertas que se abren pero que en realidad no se abren, escaleras de madera que se comban con bastante curvatura, siempre objetos compuestos en extensión lineal, siempre con la vista muy borrosa. Los flashes consisten en reapariciones involuntarias de objetos, previamente visionadas, en color negro oscuro sobre un fondo también negro de menor tonalidad. Duran un microsegundo y vienen acompañados de un sobrecogimiento de todo el cuerpo.
Nunca antes me había pasado. Igual tienes conocimientos de algo semejante, literatura al respecto o hayas pasado o estés pasando por episodios análogos. Igual es mucho más normal de lo que me parece ahora.
Ya me contarás.
Un saludo
Fernando
Para cancelar su suscripción a este grupo, envíe un mensaje de correo-e a: lyme_y_otras_zoonosis_cronicas_espanol-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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